For Sid...the lig is one of the adventitious ones!

beautiful pond Lori

Really nice Lori

Your pond looks great Lori water nice and clear too,like the water lilies!

Oh Lori....We have just started digging out a pond and my goodness its hard work........

Theres so much good comes from a pond, the water dimension adds a feeling of peace thats hard to explain but missing if not there!
Lovely pond Lori and nicely stocked too!

Hi Lori - sorry, only just caught up with this! Yes, that Lig does look like my mystery plant.... what's strange is that i would consider my garden to be on the dry side.......but thinking about it, we've had such wet summers these past 3 years that the garden never really gets that dry. I think you are right about this one being from the river...... i do hope it has a pretty flower. What time of year do they flower and do they flower in their first year?

Can only tell you that the young plants don't appear to be putting up blossom...just posted a pic of the parent plant in full bloom right now! they bloom near the end of August and into Sept. if yours blooms check out the seed heads and what ever you do put them in plastic bags because if the seed gets loose you'll have it EVERYWHERE! the finished flower spike lower left is the flower of the Przewalskii...I think I like it best.

Thanks for the info and the warning Lori!

Not heard of a Przewalskii - apart from the wild horse....

neigh! neigh!, Sid.... really should research this ubiquitous person whose name is connected with so many interesting things...from horses to plants.
incidently...the Przewalski horse is genetically in the middle, between Asses and present day horses... they're still wrangling about whether it is distinct from both designations or not!...and the P, which was the last truly wild horse is now extinct in the wild...they are seen pretty much in game parks and zoos.

Well I looked up Mr. Przewalski...and he's Nikolai Mikhailovitch Przhevalsky a Polish born Russian explorer/geographer/military general who lead five expeditions in the 'stans of Russia, ultimately trying to reach Lhasa, in Tibet.. He never did succeed but crossed miles of steppe, desert and mountain..(the Amur river basin as well) so you can see how we now have many plants from that area of Asia which are grown in our gardens for the hardiness and beauty , some of which carry his name. Sounds like a very interesting personage...think I might try some more research to see what I can find out about his "plant" discoveries...
His horse, is a third branch from the Tarpan tree.., and seriously endangered.

Ok, stop neighing at me - I promise to look up this Mr Przewalski! lol

I've seen Przewalski horses at a safari park. They certainly look more like ponies than asses in their shape, but I think they have a donkey-like tail and I believe they bray rather than neigh, so I can see where the confusion comes from in that respect.... sad that they're extinct in the wild tho isn't it. The one I saw had a little foal at foot :-) I hope there are enough of them in captivity round the world to keep the gene pool viable...... In France there are ancient cave paintings of hunting scene which seem to depict a type of horse that looks very much like the Przewalski - the right colouring, right shape, dorsel stripe, etc..... facinating stuff!

We must have posted at the same time Lori :-) You must be up very early or very late?! It's 3:00 here. Thanks for the info - will defo look up this chap!

hahaha...yes Sid I'm up with the sun...(when it's not raining). According to what I read...the Tarpan is the ancestor of the Prze...the Asses (from North Africa) and the present day horses equus equus. the Prze...along with the other distinctive markings, has dark stockings with zebra stripes in them!~ it's a wonderful looking animal... have you read Jean Auel? ...Clan of the Cave Bear...etc? In her series she has the heroine domesticating a Prz. mare on the steppes above the Caspian. Her books are Clan..etc, The Valley of Horses, The Mammoth Hunters, The Plains of Passage and The Shelters of Stone....when the sixth one (said to be the last) will be out I have no idea...but I'm waiting patiently... the books are set about 15,000 years ago in Europe...between the Crimean Penninsula and south west France. (dordogne region) You've probably read them too...what am I nattering about!?

No, no, I haven't Lori! But your enthusiasm is making me want to! I feel a visit to the library coming on......

I'm trying to think whether the Tarpans are still with us? I suspect not..... As for zebra stripes on the hind legs, in fact they occur on modern horses. You find them on dun horses (you might know the colour better as 'buckskin') which have golden coats and black points (my dear friend I used to ride as a teenager was a dun). It is considered a 'primative' marking - along with the dorsel stripe, which is interesting when you consider Prze horses are always dun with a dorsel stripe. I believe the Noregion Fjord Pony commonly shows up zebra markings, they are always dun too. I suppose modern horses and zebras have a common ancester, which must have been the start of the stripy gene

I have a real soft spot for horses.....I believe they are more intelligent than dogs, they learn quicker, live longer and I read some research recently that proved horses have better memories even than elephants! And yet people treat them so badly........

well we are of an ilk, Sid. I just found the most wonderful book : "Storey's Illustrated Guide to 96 Horse Breeds of North America" By Judith Dutson...it was the source of my info on the Tarpan, Prze, and Equus equus. it has breeding info..conformation info...termperament, etc. for 96 breeds!!! plus loads of great photos (by Bob Langrish) and stats and commentaries from experts/breeders... Also..found a book at the library today...that I've been waiting to find for some time...it's called Shy Boy, The Horse That Came In From the Wild, by Monty Roberts (the horse whisperer) He tells the story of a mustang who came to hold a great rapport with his human benefactor...take a look for that one, too...Who am I kidding, you have likely heard about Mr Roberts already...he has demonstrated his methods for Her Royal Highness and is pretty well known in horse circles!

Gosh - 96 breeds in North America along? That's amazing.....I could name maybe 10? That book must be quite a tombe!

Yes, I have heard of Monty Roberts. His biography is a facinating read - he's had an incredible life. He knew James Dean, who was going to buy MR a ranch, but died before he could do it. MR was living in near poverty at the time, so it was an incredibly cruel blow - but I wont tell you any more so that I don't spoil the read for you!

I have not read Shy Boy, but I did see the documentary where MR rode out alone to tame and bring back a wild mustang. Facinating stuff, although I think i would have been happier if the horse had been set free again after MR had proved his point.

I have mixed feelings about MR. He has certainly brought to light a new age of understanding between horse and trainer, but I do feel his methods are rather cold and calculating. Certainly he is communicating with the horses he works with, but I wonder if he truely understands what is going through the minds of the horses he works with. Two things he had said worry me in particular - first off, he supports rodeos and claims that 'bucking broncos' enjoy what they do. A horse might kick up its heels while playing, but they only buck continuously through fear or pain I would have thought. The other thing I read is that he claims to have invented something called a 'stallion cage' for stallions that are un-handleable. Obviously, his methods have not worked for these horses then. And I ask why are excessively agressive stallions being used for breeding at all? Is temperament not as important as conformation?

Sid you really must read Shy Boy. I think that it is Monty Robert's belief that aggressiveness is a response not an inbred trait... I gained that from reading the chapters in Shy Boy where he tells about a thoroughbred racehorse called Blushing ET...who had been beaten and forced into a starting gate...the horse had developed a deep bitter hatred for those men who had hurt him and would buck furiously whenever anything touched his hocks...He was extremely aggressive with both teeth and hooves... and in the words of Monty Roberts "I believe he could have killed me anytime he chose. I confess that during those moments I had absolutely no control." and the Stallion Cage is the round pen...the place with no corners... the place that will turn a horse. Some of his work has been with "incorrigibles" . horses that were full of spirit and anger... here again, negative responses...rather than an inbred trait... and he has used his method with success on them...but the method evolved to gentle a wild horse by showing him that he can trust a man. And that method depends entirely on knowing the mind of the horse...and making a kind of connection that is called the "join-up", where the horse comes to the man. it's not a surrender..it is a joining...really cool.
Please read this book...I know you will love it!
That being said..Mr. Roberts is also a business man...and he's taken on some high profile challenges to prove his method... he seems to have succeeded more than once where accepted practices failed.
His early life was lived among farmers and horse breeders... his own father , for example used violence and bullying to "break" horses...and it was the use of that word and those practices that drove a young Monty to search for his own horse among the mustangs. I guess it's entirely obvious that I really like this man and his methods... I hope you will find Shy Boy..it is a good book and very explanatory... btw...shy boy, while on a cattle drive, saw and joined a wild herd...but returned to the people he had come to feel were his "herd"..lol. great story.

I will try to track down the book then!

Regards aggression, I believe that horses respond in one of two ways to mistreatment - they either become aggressive or depressed (horses, like people, suffer from depression!), so, yes, it is a response. But I would not agree that it is solely a response - I do think that temperament can pass genetically. Selective breeding is how we have ended up with the reasonably docile domestic horse, with it's dampened down fight/flight response, instead of something more like a zebra, which are notoriously hard to train/handle. That's why I question the sense in using excessively aggressive horses for breeding. Also, the stallion cage is not the same as the round pen (round pens popped up all over the place here a few years ago!) The stallion cage was a means of keeping a horse without ever having to handle it - presumably it has compartments so that it is confined to one while the other is being cleaned for example, and the horse can be groomed etc through the bars I presume. I googled it to try to find out more, but couldn't find any reference to it - although I did discover MR has a rather good website whcih I will be revisiting!

You are right - join up is really cool to witness! Lovely to see a previously stressed-out, distrustful and lonely horse be able to trust a person and be friends.

I have to go now, but I'd like to tell you about my friend Flo :-)

cool...will await the next installment!