Hi Doris it is never a good idea to grow the same vegetable in the same place two years running, there is always the risk of a build up of disease in the soil. Rows 50cm apart should work unless the broad beans are a double row in which case they need to be 60 - 70 cm apart from the runner beans.

I agree MG.

I wonder which TV gardener said it was okay to do - 'cause I bet my gardening clogs that is how this rumour started... Four year crop rotation has always been the rule as far as I am concerned.

In the 17 hundreds it used to be a three year crop rotation and was so until recent times until the agricultural revolution.

Turnips were used in rotation as they were grown in rows and as such could be weeded whilst growing, thus reducing the area of fallow land.

Nitrogen was conserved by feeding bullocks in their pens and collecting the manure (rich in nitrogen). New nitrogen was added by planting Legumes and clover.

funny what goes around comes around and now we are advocating 'green manure'

This is one of the most memorable history lessons I had. Sad.

We cut off our legumes a few inches above the ground and leave them for a month or so before B digs in so that the nitrogen in the nodules goes back into the soil. Growing veggies used to be common sense now there is artificial this that and the next thing - we don't use any of it.

Think the problem is Mg, too many people want to make money out of us. Total newcomers to gardening spend a fortune on gardening items and chemicals.

If only they all has mentors who could show them how to rid themselves of aphids and to treat their soil not only would their bank balance look better so would this planet.

I agree Grannyb I learnt my veggie gardening at my father's knee ditto for Bulba so what is obvious to us isn't to someone who is trying to learn from scratch. It amazes me the number of different 'feeds' and the like you can buy these days... The only feed our veggies get is the compost and manure that goes in the ground and the mulch that goes on top. Very rarely I remember to make a nettle or a comfrey tea. If it is a bad year for caterpillars then the garlic spray is made up to deter the butterflies, for the rest we pick it off or ignore it.

I have learned from my OH, who learnt from his father and later his mum. I think it's very sad that young people today are not getting knowledge passed on, or is it they are not interested and then as they get older an interest develops but the best source of info may have passed away and they wished they had listened.

I think it is both Grannyb Our son does have an interest and is on GoY and does ask us, and other GoYers, questions. But there is at least one, if not two, generations out there now who do not know how to grow vegetables. I find this really sad and also worrying, what would they do if the economy really went to pot? We know we can be self sufficient, we have been in the past.

Doris, sorry if you feel we have hijacked your Q

Me too Doris, SORRY.