By Gattina
Bologna, Italy
Methyl Salicylate as a garden repellent. A friend has told us that things such as Ralgex (Deep heat sports rub), oil of wintergreen and certain mouthwashes which contain Methyl salicylate, can be used as both insect and rodent repellents. Some of you may have seen the problems we have been having with porcupines in the garden, and I wanted to check that spraying with any of the above won't be harmful to plants or pollinating insects.
- 2 Jun, 2012
Answers
Well, that wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing, Karen. I'm forever shooing them off seedlings that they seem to think are the equivalent of a sunbed......That's why I need to know it won't actually harm them.
2 Jun, 2012
Well, I'm going to keep a track of this thread and your results, should you use it. There's a ferral cat causing problems in my garden at night. Apart from what it leaves in my flower beds, it's really noisy and was fighting last night.
2 Jun, 2012
Oh Dear! All our cats are feral and roam around at night - luckily, they are part of a family group (all 25 of them) and all sterilised, so don't tend to fight or caterwaul so much. We used to get smashed plants, sleepless nights and great piles of cat fur when there were entire tomcats around. They tend to get killed off quite young, though.
I've been googling m.s. and it's only described as an insect and rodent repellent. Nothing about cats.
2 Jun, 2012
Cats don't like eucalyptus though...and it's kind of similar?
This one decided to make my garden its territory while I was away, Gattina. I think it's sleeping in the (unreachable, for me) mezzanine level in the barn.
Last year, it was the delinquent giant dormouse...this year a ferral tom...not sure which is worse! lol!
2 Jun, 2012
Well I can only hope that methyl salicylate isn't in mouth wash for the sake of those that use it - this is a topical analgesic and is also found in aspirin. As to whether it would deter animals from the garden I've no idea but the smell - which is nothing to do with the methyl salicylate - would probably deter most things.
2 Jun, 2012
Oh! And I've just remembered...when I was trying to get rid of the dormouse which is rodent...I did a lot of research and "mothballs" were recommended by lots of people. But they had to be the old-fashioned ones with a chemical whose name I've now forgotten...
I couldn't get them, here, though...
2 Jun, 2012
Yes, locals have told me that mothballs (principal constituent naphthalene) would do the trick, but I googled them, and find that they are highly toxic to cats, dogs, etc., and naphthalene is very difficult to find these days for that very reason.
I think it is the smell of m.s. that is the repellent, MG and most things wouldn't get as far as ingesting it, but I was concerned about any vapours it might give off. Apparently it is used in insect repellents. I didn't want to find it made up part of insecticides, too.
2 Jun, 2012
Unlikely, as I said it is an analgesic.
2 Jun, 2012
Just to inform you, methyl salicylate is not found in aspirin.
By definition, it is what is known as a rubefacient, not analgesic. It causes a redening of the skin by dilating capillary blood vessels, leading to a slight increase in blood circulation, which is why it is claimed to help with muscle aches when used in conjunction with counter irritants.
This reply did not involve a google search.
2 Jun, 2012
ScrumpyG neither did mine... rather MIMS which gives paper info on what is in various medications! Yes it is a rubefacient but it is also an ingredient in aspirin.
2 Jun, 2012
No it is not.
The Monthly Index of Medical Supplements does not give methyl salicylate as an ingredient of aspirin.
Check it again. It may say acetylsalicylic acid, which is completely different.
This reply did not involve a google search.
2 Jun, 2012
But, is the question not, what it is, but how it might repel porcupines, without causing damage to other living things?
2 Jun, 2012
Well methyl salicylate has another common name "oil of wintergreen" as you say, which is found in a number of plant species, wintergreen being one of them.
Google the above and read what it says about it.
I think it's got a lovely smell to it, but having played football i would.
2 Jun, 2012
Hi Scrumpy, I think Gattina has "googled" and "googled", just like I did when I had the very big rodent problem. (not as big as porcupines, though, I have to say...:/)
We can all do that...
But, at wit's end, we're looking for help! lol! :)
2 Jun, 2012
I think I shall take myself off to the local pharmacy (or vet?) and see if they'll a) sell me some, b) tell me whether it's even allowed. I have also contacted an Italian beekeepers' website to see if they know the answer. Now I have to devise a method of spreading it around without damaging plants. I shall have a garden smelling like a rugby/football clubhouse! Yes, Karen, I DID google - it can be very, very useful under the right circumstances. I'm sorry. I shan't do it again, Japon! Honest. ;o)
Thank you all for your input. It's been really interesting.
3 Jun, 2012
Dipping in and out this morning, Gattina...will pm later :)
Just a quick thought...could you maybe soak some rags or strips of fabric in it and hang them on canes around the perimeter? They might flutter in the breeze sending wafts of wintergreen in the direction of the pesky p's...
3 Jun, 2012
I thought I might, if I can get hold of some, put a few drops on something like hessian, wrapped round short lengths of bamboo pushed in close to the ground around precious bulbs, rhizomes, tubers, etc., and along the perimeter of the garden. That means it wouldn't have to go too near the hives. I just hope it doesn't flavour the potatoes! Not sure about the fluttering bit! It may even keep the darned cats off the flowerbeds, too, who knows?
I hadn't realised you'd had a dormouse problem, Karen - apparently before we came here, they were a big nuisance in the area, but the polecats saw them all off. Rather a shame - I'd love to have seen one in the wild.
3 Jun, 2012
It was the bane of my life for over a year, Gattina...and contrary to popular opinion they don't hibernate when they're living in your nice warm walls!
It's funny...I saw it coming in as bold as brass, when it was a baby and we were still renovating...so it became incorporated into the house. It was very cute then.
But, it grew to the size of a very large rat and behaved like a squirrel - clambering all over the place at all times of day and popping into the house for a rummage at night!
Then it attacked one of the dogs and she had to have stitches in her eyelid.
I "googled" and "googled"...and tried everything...poisoned baits (they're vermin here), humane baits and traps, sticky pads, modern mothballs, you name, all to no avail. It nibbled the poison and built up a resistance, I think, and avoided all the traps. It was a clever little swine!
But most advice did talk about them not liking chemical odours.
Then Pamg did a blog about chilli flakes repelling squirrels, so I threw a lot of very strong bleach around in the area I thought its nest was in, then sprinkled liberally with chilli flakes...and it worked! It just moved out!!!
3 Jun, 2012
Good luck Gattina, hope you have success! Perhaps one of the pungent essential oils might work as drops on material? Eucalyptus, Cajuput and Camphor spring to mind.
3 Jun, 2012
Have you read your MIMS yet?
3 Jun, 2012
Brilliant news - I e-mailed a UK beekeeping site and have just been talking to a Professor (of Human physiology) who just happens to be a beekeeper, and he said that far from being harmful to bees, methyl salicylate is used to treat them for something called "May Disease"! So Hooray! It won't harm cats or dogs, but is used as a specific rodent repellent. Sounds tailor-made for this situation. Thank you all for your advice, information & interesting ideas: I shall try this and let you know how we fare.
3 Jun, 2012
Hurray! A double whammy!!
Do let me know what your cats think of it! ;)
3 Jun, 2012
Oh I shall, I shall. If I can get hold of any. Watch this space.
3 Jun, 2012
Perhaps Scrumpycat knows where to get team-sized bottles? They would be useful! :)
3 Jun, 2012
I wish! I can't see British Airways being too happy about it though!
3 Jun, 2012
My apologies to our postman. Whenever we've had a certain "smell" in the garden, I've always assumed it was him as he always complains of his aches and pains and all the things he uses. Now I know it may not be him but due to our local bee keeper :)
3 Jun, 2012
Super-smelly bees, Scrumpycat!?! lol!
What a grand idea! With the swarms we've got here this year, that would be a wonderful early warning signal! :)))
3 Jun, 2012
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Gosh! No idea about its effects on plant life or bees etc, Gattina...but with that pungent smell it would make sense that it's a repellent...
Might repel your cats too, though?
2 Jun, 2012