Can I move an established fir tree?

It is good to wait until the sap has gone back down if you can so November is a good time. Make sure to get as big a root ball as possible and water well, you may find you get needle drop but the tree should recover.

but in january you can move it bair root and you need not bother about water, just make shore that the soil is tamped down firm around it, we used to put hundreds in for the county council in jan and we allways braged that we never lost a tree,but if you cano't wate until then do as MG say's it should be ok.

God wouldn't dare do that in January here Cliffo to much frost.

Best done December/January, as Cliffo says - just as long as the ground's not actually frozen, it'll be better to do it then, gives the plant more chance of recovering well. Keep the roots as intact as possible, though, and make sure the hole you transplant to is wide enough and deep enough so that you don't have to "bend" or cramp any long roots heading laterally away from the trunk.

I would also say about now is the best time while the soil is still a bit warm and also give the roots a head start before winter sets in. In my opinion some soils can be too wet and cold for transplanting conifers in December and January

You reckon, Bluespruce? Perhaps you're right, I'd do it here in London in midwinter because of the drop in transpiration rate, though.

I am sorry to disagree Bluespruce' I can understand MG because they have a longer colder winter than us,but the important point is that the tree should be conpleatly dormant, it could not establish it's self in the time left befor the first frost if it were moved now , but I would if I may add one more thing to what Bamboo said, when the ground thors the hole you dug will have looser soil than the surounding ground in to which the thor will drain so raise a little hill in the middle of the hole to put the tree on and spred the roots around it . this will save the tree being dround,I have dun hundreds of them,

No problem if you disagree Cliffo, wouldn't it be boring if we all thought and did things the same way, you may have 'dun' hundreds of them, but then again I have been growing, collecting, propagating, and shifting conifers around for 25 years and have not really had any problems moving them in mid October.

We've just started moving things that 'have' to be moved in our garden.

Try moving a pine in midwinter and see what happens...will be stone dead by spring.

I think 'planting' and moving are two different things. Cliffo you were planting bare rooted trees on a commercial scale, and I'd lay odds that some did not survive but it wouldn't have mattered too much. This is an established tree being moved a very short distance within the garden, doing it now will allow the tree time to establish itself back in the ground before winter sets in do it in January and as Bluespruce says you are likely to have a dead tree come spring.

MG I was not talking about that side of the job, and I know that people do have failers, but the team I had bosted that they never had a failior, and I put it down to a way of planting that we devised mainly for speed , we used a large pinchbar to make the hole then healed them in,but as I say that was only part of the job ,it all came under the heading wood management,and we did most things to do with trees ,even to the part I enjoyed most, the county council in Flintshire own 95%of the farming land, and it was the pratis to take back small bits of land from the tenent farmers to fence off and preserve the wild plants and moveing small trees was part of it, and just out of intrest allthough I don't want to start an aurgement with the Irish ,not to far from me there is a wood with shamrock growing in it, PS I bow to your experance mate' I have never moved them from their pots to bigger pot's

Thank you, Moon Grower, Cliffo, Bluespruce and Bamboo, for your interesting answers to my question re the moving of my fir tree.

I am undecided as to which month to try this now, but will have to make up my mind soon!

Thanks again.

Greencache

Given the conflicting answers you've had Greencache, think I'd compromise and do it the last week of October, first week november!

Good luck!

I realy do not wont my own way over this what I wont is to help you but I must just say if we were talking about fruit trees then I would advise November, but we are talking about conerfers and whot I said is perfectly true the tree must be conpleatly dormant, and then you can be as rough as you like , belive me furs in jan,

Cliffo I recognise that you believe you are completely right... but Bluespruce and others, myself included disagree. I think we need to let Greencache consider our replies and make his/her mind up. At the end of the day none of us are paid experts on this subject we simply have our own opinions. Greenc... your best bet might just be to go and ask a local tree nursery :-)

verry good idear and please let us know what he advises, either me or the others need to learn incase we have the same problem,but not MG her winters are a bit diferent to ours

right I have dun it for you, I have rung this chap I know who workes for a tree cairing firm he is there expert with RFScert ARB NPTC qualified' I know because I asked him. it can be moved in november as a root ball, but not this year, what you have to do is root prun it this november and move it next november what you do is with a spade cut the roots about 18 inches from the tree , by doing this you will encorage it to make more roots within the ball then you dig out a root ball next november and put heasion around and tie it, or you can move it as bair root in december or jan , you pays your money and you takes your pick,

Hang on Cliffo - I understand the advice is as a rootball, .... move next year, but are you saying that, if you do it bare root, you can in December or January THIS year?
And I'd just point out that those instructions assume the tree is going to be taken elsewhere, off site, which is why it needs to be wrapped in hessian as a rootball - if you're just moving it in the same garden, you should just be able to replant immediately, presumably.

I made a point of saying that it was to be moved to a diferent spot in the garden,but I surpose he was talking to me as a student,because he lectures at a couple of agri collages and if you ask him a question you tend to betreated like you know nothing and you get the lot ,and yes this december or jan

Bonkers, really, isn't it Cliffo - bare root just means you've shaken off all the soil, still got to get the roots out, bare or not. Oh well, thanks for responding.

PS he thought it should be a lot bigger if it had been there seven years

just one more thing, I did not bother to mention, when I said that after seven years the tap root will take a lot of diging out , he said all this about tap roots is a mith you just need plenty of the small roots, so realy every one was right and every one was wrong, I still love you Bamboo lol

I've noticed a lot of references to "tap" roots re trees on here - it's not really a tap root as such, its actually the big solid root that reaches right down, along with one or two other laterals, possibly, which are really there for the tree to anchor itself so it doesn't get blown over. It's the smaller roots that seek out moisture, etc Still helps with transition if you can get most of it out though, large or not.

I am afraid that I am guity of that more than most I was labouring undering a delution, but if you don't mention then I wont'

Just for interest's sake, Cliffo, tap root means any large, swollen root (usually carrot or parsnip shaped) on a plant - eryngium has a tap root, which is why its so good at surviving dry conditions.

weeping willow don't do bad when they tap in to the drains, but thank's for the lesson 'can I sit by you tomorrow.

Have to ask teacher!

Ok, I can't stand any more of this nonsense!
Conifers on no account should ever be moved in the middle of winter, the leaves will loose water and a damaged root system in the middle of dormancy is unable to replace it no matter how careful you are in the transplanting process. The end result is likely to be a DEAD tree come spring. All evergreens with few exceptions and especially conifers should be transplanted while the root system is still active so it can cope with the water loss. Sept and Oct are best in Autumn, while March and April are probably best in spring.
Cliffo - your so called expert doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to conifers...I do!

ok Bluespruce I was quoting someone else so your aurgementis now with a profesional .that owens acorn arborcare who's main office is in Heswall on the wirral you can ring him on 0800 093 6654 it will cost you nothing, you can talk to any of the staf they are all qualified to advise you,this is now out of my hands,

Cliffo - I don't need to call any so called professional when it comes to conifers, and if you remember it was YOU! who first said that conifers could be moved bare-rooted successfully in the middle of winter. This was bad advise and miss-information and needed to be corrected.

as far as I am concerned , we were all corrected by a a well respcted profesional.by the way a nabour of mine is a retired estate manager,who has read at my request what has been going on with this thred,his coments have not favoured your opinion, but I am a fair person and I have pointed out that I have respected your advice in the main, and will continue to do so, so please pick your dumy up and let's get back to helping eachother, with a bit of a laugh on the way,

Okay guys time to cool it I think. In this case I have to agree with Bluespruce Cliffo everything I've learnt states you move now or early spring not in mid winter. Please can we now let this gracefully drop accepting that we are not going to agree but that we GoYers are al passionate about growing.

Sorry Moon grower, really can't let this go.
Cliffo - trying to insult me will get you nowhere just shows a lack of intelligence on your part. perhaps you and your friend should try reading up on some proper horticulture literature, the 'Hillier Gardener's Guide to Trees & Shrubs' would be a good place to start, when you have checked that one out get back to me and I can give you a list for further reading

Now, now, Bluespruce, calm down - I'm sure the poor person who asked this question regrets ever putting it on the site, he must be sick to death of getting email notifications only to find it's you and Cliffo beating your chests. In the end, all that matters is that the question's been answered, in various ways, admittedly, and then its up to the asker to choose an option, surely. Life's too short to keep arguing...

Don't worry Bamboo, I'm always calm.

I appoligise to every one that have had to put up with this noncence, but I was not awear that I had insulted any one' but I notic that you have tryed to not only to insult me but a tree spelishist, and his qualifcations , and a retired estate manager, I will let you in on sumthing you do not seam to know, the only person we can make a fool of is ourselfs, why not agree to disagree because this is now starting to get out of hand, so may I now concider that we have shook hands and are still frends that are prepaird to help eachother.

i'm surprised that conifers are dormant surely they a less active as they will still be photosynthesising etc. after all they are evergreen [majority of species anyway] for a reason. Clearly reduced activity but dormant? I have moved them [4] sort of now [school half term] when i have had too. and taking as much root as pos straight into a prepared hole has been successful.

This is the time we would move conifers too SBG and I didn't think they became dormant - Bluespruce thoughts? Or are you keeping out of this now?

well I aint'Ihave been doing a bit of checking, but first let me say I know we get away with things ,but we take a risk,the person that asked the question did not want to loose it so we could not let that person take the risk, and evergreen trees do become dormant, now for the checking up,foxhallow belongs to the brittish conifer societyand was started in2003 the yanks started some years befor, theweb page that our frend says is his is infact the british conifer' society web page they are not a nursery at were our frend worked they deal in unusual andornamental conifers, a show place for the public and the credit he clames for the place by him should realy go to a place calledbedgebury pinetum I don't know what an attendent wold need in the way of quolitforcations but a degree sounds a bit too much' he says he started gardening in 1998 well I started in 1939,and in the end he even said that he knew more than a profesinol expert,and you would rather liston to him, ha ha ha good night fair madesx

Cliffo - you really are talking out the back of your arse!

Bluespruce I did not want to fall out with you, or treat you with disrespect, I thought it was geting out of hand befor as I said ,but now I am not going to this new low. the advice I gave was sincer and I drew on a longe experance, but as there was dout I checked with an expert. I happen to feal that if we only think we know ,we should say I think, or say nothing and leave it to people that do know, and if we dout their word get some real facts to back up our dout's. now once agine I am offering to drop it and carrie on in the sprit of this web site, as your frend who is willing to help if I can, and will be gratefull for your help when I need it. come on lad you are not enjoying this just as I am not.

Cliffo - If you want this matter to drop the first thing you will need to do is retract all the inaccuracies from your previous comments, as they are actually defamatory and libellous. I will however be very tolerant and assume you were getting a little confused when you were conducting your check on me.
To put the record straight please read the following factual corrections to your comments very carefully.
.
1) Foxhollow Garden is my property and has nothing to do with the British Conifer Society or Bedgebury National Pinetum. So any credit for the creation of the garden is mine, and mine alone.

2) The British Conifer Society of which I am one of the founder members was formed in 2003.

3) The Foxhollow Garden website is my website and again nothing to do with the British Conifer Society.

4) I started my present garden at Foxhollow in 1998, I did not say I started gardening in 1998.

So there we have the facts cliffo, and as I said, you issue a full retraction of your previous comments and we can drop the matter and hopefully still be friends.

Bluespruce

Holy moly...

and ho hum....

aaah pants just remembered I forgot to shut the greenhouse!!

x x x

Will you two alpha males get over it! Right now I don't care which of you is right... just let this go please so that GoYland can get back to being a happy place to be. I can find plenty of arggie and agro. outside this happy land don't need it here. I recognise you both feel have been insulted, be men enough to suck it up and turn the other cheek.

you are right MG and I apoligise for my part in this silly mess we have got in to and for spoiling a good humerd and helpfull site, I will now withdraw every thing I have said and hope that BS and I can worke togather to help eachother and other people. Cliffo

No problem Cliffo, all over and forgotten
Regards, Bluespruce.

Thank god for that you guys - I was thinking of coming down and bashing your leads together! :-)

will you no bring a we dram with you.

Have one on me cliffo :0)

I have commented because i would like to keep track of the useful transplanting information and discussion on this thread.

You're a bit late I think Funguy - this probably counts as a dead thread now unless you mean the info already contained here...

Yes, just for the info already here. As i'm not on my own computer,i can't bookmark it.
I would love there to be a favorite questions option for us to save to! Not that I'm complaining, the site, and you are extremely helpful.

My word, forgot all about this thread ...whatever happened to Cliffo!! ;o)

I believe his account was deleted by the boys after one of his rants... Sad in a way because he had some interesting info. but he was also extremely argumentative.

Thanks Moongrower, can't believe it's two years ago!

Amazing how time flies isn't it

I donated the tree to a local forestry organisation circa November 2009. We saved as many roots as possible, wrapping them to keep in moisture. The tree was collected soon after by one of the workers.

Thanks to everybody for all the interest shown.