By Monjardinlra
Limousin, France
Butternut squash: I grow courgettes hugely successfully (sigh!) and pumpkins, but never yet butternut squashes. Why not? (I succumbed to temptation yesterday and bought in the supermarket seeds for something called 'Courge Waltham Butternut' for the hopefully eventual Spring. Any tips to tempt them to grow? (I would start them off in March, but don't have a greenhouse, so a medium chilly windowsill is probably the best they could expect...)
- 3 Jan, 2013
Answers
I've grown them successfully for three years now, and it's not rocket science! The first year I did what Kildermorie did and took seeds from a Sainsbury's butternut squash - the squashes that grew were HUGE, but stored well and tasted very good. The following year I grew from proprietary seed (can't remember the variety, sorry) and they were delicious and a much more manageable size - this last year we went with another variety (harrier), and although they grew well, the taste was disappointing and flavour was lacking. I started seed off in a little plastic wall greenhouse at the beginning of April and they germinated happily, despite low spring temperatures. We grow them on shallow (the mountain rock is only a few centimetres below the surface), well manured ground in full sunshine, but they do need a lot of space to spread. They can dry out quite easily in really hot weather, so you may need to water, and the idea is to nip out the growing tips when the stems reach about 4', I think. Once the squashes have formed, leave them on the plant as long as you can, so they ripen really well, but put some sort of protection beneath, so they aren't lying directly on soil (dried grass, straw, boards) where they may rot or get targetted by slugs, etc.. Some squashes are ready when they detatch themselves from the withered plant in autumn, some will need to be cut off. Store them by hanging in a cool, dark place (we have a cellar full of them hanging from the rafters, tied into old tights!) We're growing Waltham, too this coming season.
I imagine your weather will be similar to ours, Motinot, so I'm sure you'll have no trouble, and once they do germinate, as long as it isn't freezing, they seem to grow a mile a minute. Your windowsill should be fine! Good luck - I shall wait to see the pictures with great interest!
3 Jan, 2013
We cannot grow Butternut squash here at all, even in the polly tunnel. We grow various other short season Winter squash in there and they all do very well. Never had a squash of any sort survive even, outdoors never mind fruit.
3 Jan, 2013
Sorry, Monjardinlra - I don't know what came over me, calling you Motinot!
3 Jan, 2013
My mother had great success with them during the Depression in Pennsylvania, Monjardinira. Mostly benign neglect, though she did have rich, sandy soil, there. If I am extrapolating the climate of your region correctly, you might need to water more than she did during the summer. Note that the vines take up considerable space, but the squash are small enough to hang on a sturdy trellis with cloth slings.
3 Jan, 2013
I raised 3 Squash's in 2012 (was about to say this year) and one was the size of a small rugby ball and the others the size of a one of those mini-footballs that young kids play with, so not great out of 20 plants sown. When growing some rotted where the flower was at the bottom of the fruit and others just seemed to rot from the inside. I think it was too wet last summer and not enough late summer/autumn heat.
3 Jan, 2013
I was given one very small butternut squash plant last year, and although very late I stuck it in the veg patch. It did grow quite big and had about 5 viable flowers. Alas the resulting squash only grew to about 3" long before the frost/wet set in. Will try again this year earlier and perhaps with a bit of manure. Fingers crossed
3 Jan, 2013
I'm one of the Brit growers who have given up. Although I'm fairly well north, the sea means we are temperate in most winters but it also means we are cool in summer too. Even the squashes allegedly developed for the UK just won't fruit properly round here. I knew I should have retired to Tuscany :o))
4 Jan, 2013
You don't need to go as far south as Tuscany, Sarra - terribly overrated and overpriced place! ;o))) You are right, though, you definitely need both heat and a fair bit of sunshine to get the best results.
4 Jan, 2013
thank you everyone for all your help! we have good sunshine here (most years, though not enough in 2012!) and I can ripen pumpkins on the plant and usually have more courgettes than I know what to do with (though I love them, hence my avatar!) Tomatoes also, we never have to make green tomato chutney as they all ripen before the frost! (alas, 'cos I like green tomato chutney..)
However last summer, like for many of you, the courgette fruits rotted before ever ripening until well into August - so I'm just being positive in planning a new vegetable for this new year! I'd heard butternut squash could be temperamental, but it sounds as though in this climate they might be worth the effort (and the watering cans at need!) Thanks again all (and don't worry, Gattina, 'a rose by any other name would smell as sweet'!) :-)
5 Jan, 2013
I wonder if you're like me, Monjardin, I grow courgettes and they tend to take most of the garden over, and If I miss one when I'm picking them, a couple of days later it's the size of Belgium and doesn't make good eating. We'd give them away, but everyone round here grows them and we end up feeding the surplus to next-door's ducks. At least pumpkin keep well. We lost all the mini fruits on ours back in early June - they just started to rot on the vine for no particular reason, and I was very put out, but then more started to grow, and we ended up with a huge harvest of them. I make a really good chutney from them with onions and peaches, and after a couple of years' maturing on the cellar shelves, it's as close to Branston pickle as you'll ever get. Trouble is, you can't buy malt vinegar here, and without it you can't get the depth of flavour.
5 Jan, 2013
I grew butternut in pots in a small glasshouse and although only one squash per plant I was suprised at any considering the weather!
5 Jan, 2013
ooh, Gattina, please send me a PM if possible (in due course, any time up to August will do!) re the recipe for the pumpkin chutney, it sounds delicious and though I don't (yet) have my own peach tree (I'm planning a red-fleshed one, just for fun, as this has childhood memories for me), one of the neighbours-next-door is a holiday visitor only, and I have permission to pick their prolific peach tree if they're not around at the relevant time!
I agree with you re the malt vinegar: we have something here which I have used instead called 'vinaigre d'alcool coloré' (the "colouring" is caramel, I think!) but it is not the same thing at all. However our cider and apple and indeed wine vinegars are great, and you can't have everything, can you? (and after all you in Italy have balsamic vinegar, which for some purposes is irreplaceable, too!)
re the courgettes, yep, we're clearly on the same wave-length here - either none and dried up brown fruit ends, or more usually, turn your back and the things are nudging you in the backside! (and there's only so much stuffed marrow that you can eat, and for my neighbours "familiarity breeds contempt" (if not frantic unloading!) so not a gift option...) However, I freeze a lot - only in a ratatouille or a spaghetti sauce base, they are pretty horrid I think, frozen neat - which at least gives me some winter vegetable rations - till I can get a harvest from those butternut squashes!
6 Jan, 2013
P.m. sent! I have NEVER managed to freeze courgettes successfully, and there's only so much ratatouille you can bottle or stuff in the freezer: fresh is SO much nicer, too.
6 Jan, 2013
yes, Gattina I agree, fresh is much nicer, but in "the hungry gap" (isn't that a wonderfully expressive term for Jan-Feb-March?) I'm quite glad of the freezer and the kilner jars, when I get fed up with leek-and-potato soup... We even blanch young dandelion plants here to get our 5-per-day in the early spring - though I have to admit that even with bacon bits in the salad, I find these a touch too French for me!
7 Jan, 2013
We still have rows of broccoli and brussel sprout plants, loads of leeks, strings of onions plus winter salad (radicchio) to keep us going through "The hungry gap" plus lots of passata, stewed bottled peppers and frozen soups. We see people out and about with baskets in the fields collecting SOMETHING, and have only recently discovered that it is something very like dandelions - maybe nearer wild chicory - but I find it totally inedible. I really must sow some coriander seed for the kitchen windowsill: Our parsley is still growing strongly, but I know that in a month or so it will be frost-bitten and useless.
7 Jan, 2013
I think the dandelion we are talking about is indeed a chicory. Chicory 'Catalogna Puntarelle Brindissina' is the most common cultivated variety. I used to grow it but haven't done so for ages because I had a senior 4 or 5 years and forgot about it. It looks like dandelion, except the leaves are not as broad and are paler. It is, of course, a rather bitter leaf but is very palatable without blanching. It is long lasting (throughout the year that is) and is a great addition to a green salad, especially if, like us, you find most lettuces boring. It has more character than water cress or land cress and is a doddle to grow. I believe that in some areas of Europe it grows wild and if you collect dandelion by mistake then no harm done, young dandelions are excellent to eat. I shall certainly get some seed this year now this thread has reminded me, although, Gattina, I now even more firmly believe I should have gone along with the Tuscan retirement plan.
7 Jan, 2013
:o) Life's much cheaper in Emilia Romagna, Sarra!
You can buy big packets of mixed "Insalata invernale" seeds here, and I have a suspicion that at least some of that is made up of chicory. The radicchio and some of the salad leaves are quite palatable, but we can't get accustomed to the overriding bitterness of some of the other leaves, so we've stopped sowing it. I'd love to be able to buy water or land cress here, but we can't find it. I have a plan to grow some of our own this year, though. I agree, some lettuces ARE boring.
7 Jan, 2013
I think the dandelion leaves we blanch here are just the ordinary ones - pis-en-lit, they are somewhat indelicately called here for their apparent diuretic properties!
My neighbour rushes out with an upturned flower-pot to cover them, as soon as she spots the new young plant emerging... And thus soon has a salad with bacon bits (and possibly warm goat's cheese). Blanched they're not so bitter but I have to admit they are a taste I haven't yet quite acquired! But since many people hereabouts have a salad of some sort every day as the first course of their meal, it's useful to ring the changes, I guess.
Also too bitter mostly for me are the oval white/pale yellow "endives" (now those ARE called chicory in England, I think?) which people here buy in huge bagfuls in the winter, and eat both in salad (nice with sliced apple and raisins) and cooked (braised) as a vegetable accompaniment.
9 Jan, 2013
Yes, I think you are right about the endives getting called chicory in the UK, MJ. Another vegetable that leaves me cold. I much prefer fennel raw in a salad or braised with hot dishes, and celeriac is a big family favourite. We are constantly astonished at how seldom cooked green vegetables appear on menus here - our Sunday roast rarely makes an appearance without at least 6 vegetables, and often 9 or 10.
9 Jan, 2013
Do you grow fennel, anyone (Gattina in particular, since you were the one to mention it...) I've never tried as my kids didn't like the taste of aniseed, but at Christmas used to make a Delia Smith recipe of stuffed red peppers with fennel as a favourite (just for me!) starter (yum, & nice warm or cold)... Here I buy fennel, readily available, but I'd rather grow it if feasible, as with everything.
I believe it's not too difficult, though takes up lots of room? worth doing, does anyone think?
9 Jan, 2013
I used to grow Florence fennel (the vegetable type with the bulb) but we both decided we weren't very fond of its aniseed flavour and it was very invasive through self seeding so I decided it was more trouble than it was worth. Tried the herb type as well (no bulb) but we decided we prefer dill which is also aniseedy. So don't grow any fennel any more.
10 Jan, 2013
No, we don't, either - it got severely mauled by slugs and, as you say, Sarra, took up a lot of space. Not even the neighbours bother - it costs about 75p a kilo in the local shops, so why bother? We have some ornamental bronze fennel, and very pretty it is, too. Tried to grow dill a couple of times (we love it with fish) without much success, so trying a different variety this year.
I know that Delia recipe so well, MJ! I use fennel, stewed and blitzed, along with the seed, to flavour bread which we eat, toasted, with home-made gravadlax and mustard sauce. Yummie! Big family favourite.
10 Jan, 2013
All I did was wash the seeds and store them in an envelope in the fridge till March. I then germinated in a greenhouse but a windowsill will be OK if slower. They grow very much like Pumpkins and treat as such. They were slow to flower for me, but am guessing France will have stronger hours of sunshine.
3 Jan, 2013