Top one looks like a Geum, we have one like this which is an absolute terror of a thug. It seeds everywhere and gest very big.

Cheers - I'll get rid!!

Bottom one looks like ground elder to me... a definite weed to be removed.

I agree with moon grower. the bottom one definatley looks like ground elder. I have it in my garden and it takes up so much of my time trying to get it out with out harming the plants. The sooner you get rid of it the better.

Thanks to you all. I suspected this might be elder - it's coming through under the fence from my neighbour's garden. I keep digging it out (it seems to be spreading underground) and every time it rains, there's a new load of growth. I'll just keep digging it and meantime have a word with my neighbour who has a great big clump on the other side of the fence which she says is difficult to control.

It is very difficult to control and any bits of root left in the ground will grow again... dig, dig and dig some more