3 x 3 metres according to Shoot and Crocus - garden centres have adopted a tendency to give height and spread after five or ten years, rather than ultimate measurements - but they don't tell you that's what the info means. Honestly, most garden centres can't be trusted at all, they're as bad as estate agents...

Hey!! That's...that's...sadly true for many. :(
We try to do better where I work, since we have been around for almost 80 years, but too many, including wholesalers, have succumbed to the "soak and snooker" school of salesmanship, and the accompanying business model. Too many don't seem to plan to be in business next year, or they think that there is an endless supply of fools, and that gardeners never talk to each other.
(Puff, puff!) OK, rant over! :)

Hey Tug, What garden center do you work at? Can you please email me the website link? I'd like to browse through it.

I hate to say this Tug, but there IS an endless supply of fools, although 'fools' is probably a bit harsh, its more people who don't know much about plants and don't really want to know, or haven't the time to know. There are loads of people who buy plants when they look pretty and in flower (which is practically the only time they;'ll be selling them anyway, when they're in flower), and when they die, wonder why and return and buy something else- and that cycle repeats itself ad nauseum. Our garden centre was once a nursery and used to have a well informed person you could go to years ago, and a good stock of plants year round, whether they were in flower or not. Got bought out by one of the big chains, and they don't have any kind of service like that now. That's bad enough, but now they've started putting dodgy info on the labels too -hardy when its not, understating sizes and so on. Talk about 'buyer beware'... most plants I source these days via the internet, you just can't find 'em otherwise.

the sale of summer bedding at Easter is the one that gets me as in the N/E June is the earliest I'd do it. but the gc get a double sale. the first lot and then a second sale when the first lot die. grr makes me so cross.

Bamboo, I know about the proliferation of people who know nothing of gardening. It often seems that I answer the same 6 questions, 6 times a day, 5 days a week, month after month! When I got my Certified Nursery Professional, there were about 30 of us in the class. When I became a Master Gardener, there were about 15 in that class. These classes go on 2-3 times a year, year after year, and the dough doesn't even seem to be leavened! Alas!!
I presently work for a small family-run nursery, but I used to work for a big chain. In those days, every day was like a Dilbert comic strip, with either the pointy haired boss or Dogbert in charge! So it's no wonder that "hinkey" things go on, though still regrettable.

Working for a smaller family run actual nursery must be great in comparison to a large chain - round here now, there aren't any more nurseries, just two very large chain garden centres. Where, of course, it's all about the money... go there in late November and there's hardly a plant outside to be seen - whole place is just full of Christmas trees for sale, and the inside might as well be one giant Santa's grotto from just after Halloween. But I remember it from before, when you could go in November if you wanted and the place would still be full of plants, many of them dormant, but all for sale, AND they'd order in whatever you wanted if they could get it. No wonder internet plant suppliers have proliferated and taken off, I've ordered particular plants from all points of the UK in recent years, but of course, that's only useful if you know your plants and know exactly what you want - and most people don't. Hmm, now that's got my mind whirring, there must be a new business opportunity there...

Drive up to North Hertfordshire, Bamboo, one fine day - we have THREE proper nurseries within a radius of five miles. (I'll give you the tour on request, lol, but not for a week as I'm off to Cornwall :) )

Ooh lucky you, I love Cornwall, wouldn't want to live there, but like going for a visit. I know there are still plenty of nurseries, those are dotted about all over the country and mostly where I place orders, but where I am, West London, I suppose space is at a premium, both in availability and cost, so what we have are just garden centres. Been here long enough though to remember going to various small operations within a 5 mile radius 25 years ago, its sad to see them all gone now. Kent's got a good number of nurseries too...

Yes - it's good that there are still plenty of good, smaller nurseries around the country. I suppose GCs proliferate because they make money from associated goods . . .

Do you not fancy living in Cornwall because it's so far away from everywhere else?! Our younger son lives there and loves it, and of course we love visiting and play 'escaping the crowds' :)

I've got a friend who moved down there 10 years ago - they built their own house on a bit of land they'd bought and included a small B & B element, just two rooms. She likes the life, but she's had real difficulty making good friends - mind you, she is quite intellectual, very well informed, opinionated and very, very forthright (worse than me, she's not well endowed with empathy, though she can do sympathy) and that combination doesn't seem to go down very well down there! I just don't think I could move somewhere like Cornwall, it would feel too 'alien' - alien's great for a holiday, but not for living in. I think I'm too used to concrete, street lights, Uber taxis, Hungryhouse and shops everywhere!

Mmmm, fascinating. It must often be difficult being an 'incomer', but I hadn't thought about it from the point of view of personality before. Steve couldn't be more different from your friend . . . laid back, easy going, not very confident and a gentle soul. But I guess it takes everyone about 40 years before becoming accepted!

Not sure the Cornish ever accept incomers in less than a century! people in the north west of England are much more accepting and friendly, I find - got a sister who relocated up there 3 years ago, so I visit a fair bit, and she's not been greeted with distrust and suspicion at all, quite the opposite. Cornish are fine with the grockles though...

Thanks, Bamboo, but having read the label again, it says that 125 cms is its approximate eventual height, and that it's a compact variety which is smaller than Gwenllian. As Gwenllian apparently grows to 180 - 240 cms max, this appears to make sense. As Lisa Rose is a new variety, I'm beginning to think that Crocus et al are wrong, and have simply used the dimensions of the standard V.tinus (300 cms). What do you think?

oooh (intake of breath, you know, like car mechanics and plumbers do when asked the cost of a job) not sure - Crocus is pretty trustworthy on sizes, but if you like it, plant it and if it gets too large after a few years, get rid... many larger plants are just (relatively, maybe a decade) temporary visitors in a garden