Buck

All I get are the local cats and the odd fox!

He's lovely CJ!

hes lovely.....

beautiful

A handsome brute if ever I saw one.

Fantastic shot Cat...great to see so close !

Wow. what a treat...so beautiful!

What a catch Cat ! He's magnificent looking .

we have deer in Wales...Cat...

Very many? Do they bother your garden? They are such pests here about our garden....If they were not so pretty I would think of them as giant rodents. Have to be sure and plant either lots or only things they don't like..

Thanks all for your interest and compliments on this picture..I walked out with my camera in one hand and trying to wave them off with the other...I knew they would not run..but they were headed toward my roses and they are just setting new buds again..I was only about 5 feet away for this shot..and a couple others and then flapped both arms and hollered....they just meandered along like they were on holiday...enjoying the sites...I got them to at least go in aonther direction and then got my stinky bad smelly power out and sprinkled it at the edges of my lawn..it is supposed to smell like cougar..I don't think they believe for a minute I am a cougar...but had to try.. :)

we dont have any here...but i know a few people trying to keep them out of their gardens Cat. but we do have barn owls...i've just got some photos of this years offspring...loading them up now..

Do the barn owls eat your garden? lol..

not that i have noticed... but the sparrows are very partial to some of my succulents.. lol

I think barn owls go after small animals actually..wonder what the sparrows are about with your succulents...silly birds,,,

when we had the puppies last year the owls were very interested and the buzzards. they wouldnt dare now Blodwyn would have them...

Feel sorry for you neighbors...YOUR deer are probably eating their roses even as we speak! LOL
This guy is a beauty, antlers in the velvet. He must be very proud of them!
I hope you're careful and don't underestimate the deer, they can be ornery, and unpredictable.

Porker Buck's jumped my back garden fence and casually ate every bloomed out and budding yellow rose bloom, trampled my current bush, it is no more, and then grazed around the edge of the deck until my grand fur Munchie went out for his morning trot around..He barked them back over the fence..and then kept barking until they left the field. But what a disaster they created...I am about to give up on having any roses...These deer are so tame..I doubt they know how to charge anyone....only thing that worries them are coyotes or cougars...I would rather have the cougars...at least they don't eat the plants. :(

Darn it! So sorry. I'm always amazed when there are miles and miles of open land and forest over there and the deer still want to hang out in town. I talked to Michelle yesterday and she said one of her neighbors saw a cougar in their (Tyler and Michelle's) pasture a few days ago just below their house . There have been several cougar sightings near them. They live out below Mt Spokane where there are a lot of deer to attract the cougars.

I think that it why the deer stay so close to our homes. The cougars stay more in the nearby woods. They have been spotted here in town though. A cougar killed a deer three blocks down from me a while back..

I hadn't considered there being cougars in your area but there is a lot of wilderness in the Olympic Mountains on the pennisula. ...Three blocks from your house? Whew...too close!

I raised my children for 14 years near Mt. St. Helens could hear the Cougars screams in the night as they passed through. Hair raising scream.. I am not bothered by the idea of them here. They have been a part of my life for so long. I just wish they would chase the deer away from my house for me.

u need my non stop barking trio of terriers. so sorry to hear about the damage....we used to have a goat tethered in the garden but at least twice a year hed escape somehow and trash the garden....

My grandfather used to tell a story about the early days in his cabin when he looked out and there as a cougar stretched out on a wide ledge along the window. I had nightmares about that until I was past my childhood....er, wait, that hasn't happened yet. LOL - that was my first childhood & this is my second...

Well , we were never allowed as children to go into the woods where we lived alone..we were guarded well..lol.
Where I raised mine, it was the same...but between the logging truck road and the creek..I think the cougars were the least dangerous..!

Sandra....do goats keep deer out?
I have dogs and they bark them fine in the daytime..but the deer really could care less..you can be out mowing your lawn and they just stand and munch like they are not the least bothered.

dont think goats are your answer...lol
maybe a high powered water pistol is the answer.....

I have been trying something new..I have an air freshener that you plug in and have a fan in a window that is blowing out instead of in and it blows right into the rose bed almost..then I have been tucking lavender scented dryer sheets for fabric softening in amonngst the bushes...lol..so far I still have roses and buds..hope it is really working..I may have struck upon something. But you never know with these deer..

I put scented hand soap at the base of some of my shrubs that they were eating and I really think it helped. I wonder if it penetrates the soil after a few rains and gets into the plants system and ruins the taste for them. Don't know if it would hurt the roses though.

I am thinking that the smell of my house scent and the smell of the lavander confuses them..I am hoping anyway.

I was just about to say what a wonderful sight to see in your back yard ...... and then I read down !!! I think I'll stick to looking at wonderful pictures instead ! Am I likely to see a Cougar ???? Here's hoping ! :-)))) (Taken from a great distance !! haha)

Doubtful..there will be a cougar siting ..but you never know..LOL..! a friend of mine told of a bus ride was on. They were traveling around here somewhere..not far away at all..just moving about on the bus..anyway, she said she saw a deer coming busting out of the undergrowth and run leaping high into a marshy area...she wondered why until she saw the Cougar come running out of the undergrowth next!...I have never seen that,..and it was in broad daylight!

WOW !!! To see it in front of your own eyes as opposed to on TV ... amazing !
Have only just started looking through your pic's Cat, I'm sure I'm going to have a wonderful time in Washington State !! : - ))))

Good! Enjoy :)

I'm sure I will !!! :-)))

What a brazen devil! And poking his tongue out at you to show his comtempt for your roses!

I know sometimes people use plastic models of owls to scare pigeons away and I'm wondering if a model or cut-out shape of a couger would spook the deer?

Are cougers a threat to people?

Before my time, but my parents used to have a cottage just outside of Hereford. They came home late one night and stopped the car at teh side of the house unwittingly trapping a herd of deer in the back garden (deer in the UK are shy and rarely tame and these ones were terrified of people) and the whole lot of them escaped the garden by JUMPING over the entire length of a saloon car!!! Must have been an amazing experience, that lot jumping over the car!

Oh yes that would have been quite something..much nicer tho than having one crash into you as you are driving along..have had that happen..must have been being chased.
But this one is more than likely licking his chops at the thought of more roses...lol...
A lady I met on one of my early morning walks, told me the other day, that she has strung fishing line with good success for keeping them out of things...guess they do not like not knowing what they are putting there head into..can't blame them for that..wish I had known before they ravaged my rose bushes..not much chance of many more blooms now..

My roses probably done, had a hard frost this morning. Wasn't it just day before yesterday that I was shoveling snow from the last snow storm this spring? Humbug.

Oh my a hard frost..we will not have one until much later ..maybe not till November....but it is getting cooler for sure..sorry Sisty.. :(

Funny, we had a frost yesterday and tomorrow is supposed to be 90 degrees. In spite of my mumbling I like changes in the weather.

Did someone say frost? Ugh..... :-S

Are cougers dangerous for people? I guessing they are if they can take down a deer......

Weeds can get frost and 70-80 degree weather in one day if my memory serves me..you get some very cold mornings in the fall..brrrr...but it warms up very well by the late afternoon...here we have had a nice warm sunny fall..so like what I am used to here...no threat of frost yet..

Yes cougars are dangerous to people ...They tell us to treat them the same as bears in the wild..make yourself as large as possible..hands up in the air..and walk slowly backward..no turning and running ..as they will then chase you...any animal will chase you if you run...then they have no choice but to catch you...whether they are hugnry are not...instinct I think.. :o) Wanna come over and take a walk in my woods Sid???? ..come on...id..b fun,,,,! I can keep the cougars away don...worreeeeee..... :o)

EeeeeeeeK!!! No thank you! I'm quite used to being at the TOP of the foodchain thank you very much! And as for walking backwards with your hands in the air...don't you know there are roots and things and badgers in woods? I'd fall over something! And then what would become of me? I'd get bitten by the badger and eaten by the couger! I'm just not used to having the wildlife ganging up on me like that!

Got down to 5 degrees here last night...brrrrr. Last winter the local authority ran out of salt grit for the roads and for the last week salt lorries have been going up our road....waiting for the top of this salt mountain to start to show over the tops of the houses!!

Awww..they are more afraid of us than we are of them..they try to stay away from humans and if you run across each other it is just by accident..they usually get big and back up too..lol..so it is not really that big of a problem.

goodness.. that seems very cold..you must mean 5 degrees celsius? we use fairenheight here so that would be far below freezing...oh my..way too early for that...

Hehe...yeah, celcius. I'm a bit odd (as if you didn't know that!!) in that when I was at school, they were replacing imperial with metric, so I tend to use both. I measure things in metres and centimetres but I estimate measurements in feet and inches! I confuse myself sometimes.......... ;-)

Cat, quit! you're scaring Sid! I haven't been attacked and eaten by a cougar in weeks! Perfectly safe. Perfectly.
Horseback riders here who ride in the high country sometimes attach bells to their cinches to warn bears that they are coming. The theory is that if the bear hears the bell he will retreat. It's the ones that get startled who attack in self defense. That is only bear theory, I haven't actually discussed it with any bears.

yeah I have read where they tell hikers to do the same...of course the joke is ..and if he eats you then they can hear the bells jangling in the bear...lol...

I heard the only way you can tell the difference between a grizzlie and a black bear is that a grizzlie has bells in their droppings.
I wonder how many hikers are institutionalized when they go crazy from listening to the bell dinging every step? LOL

I'd rather whistle and make a lot of noise as I walk..talk to the trees and the birds...scare off people that way too...lol

I'd make a terrible hunter. I sound like school bus going through the woods. Not much danger of there being any wild animals in their right minds being within miles of where I'm hiking. I hate this time of the year, hunters are in the woods now, we take our lives in our hands just being down there.

Yep here too...do not wear anything brown for sure...bright glowing orange is best..or just do not go in the woods...

I have a safey vest, but I don't really trust them not to shoot across the canyon at anything moving. Not everyone thinks this whole hunting thing through.

Trigger happy beginners...and testosterone...

Fraid so.

Sorry to here this buck is such a pest! I do love this pick, caught in full velvet! I soo miss deer, having none here, but I have heard they are becoming quite a nuisance since we've eliminated so much of their natural predators. The cougars might be close, but there aren't that many left. I think they are grand creatures, one of my favorite. Always around in the mountains in Idaho. I've been hiking with one taking down something in the next valley. I was glad it was eating, not hunting me. :-) lol.

There were 5 in my field that day 4 in full velvet..they are so tame living inside the city limits...born and raised there...they have no real fear of humans..there are cougars here, not many, packs of coyotes will take one down now and then....most people either have very tall fences or plant only things that deer do not like...But he is beautiful..I do have respect for his rights as an animal that was here long before I was. and yes..you got the best end of that hiking trip..! :o)

I find it strange that your deer are so confident around people in a country where they are hunted - they are (generally speaking) not hunted in the UK and yet they are incredibly shy - always feel really lucky to spot them - usually the brief-est of glances through the trees...

A couple of years ago I was horse riding with a friend - just the two of us - we were picking our way up the hill up a forestry track, me behind riding a beautiful 17hh thoroughbred steeplechaser (...sigh...... x-)) ANYhoo....because the way up was steep, the forestry people had zigzaged the path up the hill and when my friend turned her horse round one of the bends, her horse just froze in his tracks with his ears pointing at sometime rather accusingly..... I brought my ride up beside her and the same happened - she froze in her tracks. I looked up ahead and right across the track ahead of us there was a whole herd of deer! We just stood and stared at them.....and they just stood and stared back! It seemed so strange that they didn't just immediately turn tail and run. I think it was because we were on four legs and looked like herbivours on the horses? Eventually, they just wandered calmly up into the woods and we rode past - my ride kept glancing into the woods and the deer were there, looking back at us! Still makes me shiver to think about it.....really beautiful moment.

Regards the bears and bells thing....I can see it working if the bears are not hungry....but if they ARE hungry, wouldn't they just sit in the bushes and wait for a bell to come along?!

Sounds like a great ride...beautiful...Sid.. :)

Yes, it was very special. I think it was even nicer because the two of us were alone in the wood :-)

Nice story Sid, my horse always sees the wildlife before I do. My hubby's horse could trip over a deer and not see it. We were on a ride with 5 or 6 ladies a few of years ago and came around the bend in the path and there was a huge papa moose standing ahead. Like your deer, we just looked at each other. Needless to say, we back tracked to a different path.

and what were you two doing alone together in the wood?
hmmmmmm? Sid?

I sense a story coming on....I'm waiting-----

Well..hrummph..your story of the huge papa moose makes me upset....I wanted to see moose when I was there and all I got to see was their droppings... :( whimper...sniff

You need to head up toward Prince George or 100 Mile House if you want to see moose. Stacks of them up there. You have to be very careful at this time of year when you're driving. You do NOT want to hit a moose with your car.....talk about a total write off!!

I saw a huge coyote day before yesterday when I was driving down to see my parents. Haven't seen one that big for a long time. Almost like a wolf.

There has been a cougar sighting out in Westsyde (part of Kamloops) near the elementary school. Parents are having to pick up their children in cars. We used to have cougar come through the gulley at the farm quite regularly. I never let the kids go down there by themselves....they at least had to have the 4 farm dogs with them.

Wolves or Coyotes - i do not like !
Not that i've ever had one loose near me but i've seen them several feet away and no, i just do 'not' like them.

Cougar were in the valley where I raised my children as well...heard one come screaming through in the middle of the night once..they scream like a woman but much more fierce...not sure what on earth it had to scream like that about. Could not see it but it was close...

Ooh, that would scare me to death Catfinch :-(

Maybe it was mating Cat.
Louise....I'd rather meet a coyote than a cougar anyday. Coyotes are usually easy to run off unless they are really hungry. They are getting bolder in the cities though......there was one that attacked a child in Vancouver last year I think it was.

Do you think, Gilli, that it was attacking for food or perhaps protecting it's young..they are all over here..in daylight as well..see one in particular. They seem to have a territory...I don't think wolves will attack unless they are attacking game for food. Or perhaps are hungry and want the food you are eating.
No wild animals will attack out of meaness...they either have to be sick, very hungry or protecting their families.
The cougar did not scare me..was a bit surprising..I was inside..my guard dog, he was very intelligent a dog, a mix of Shepard, Pit Bull and Lab..he was outside..in those days we did not have inside dogs..he growled below my bedroom window and alerted me before I ever heard the cougar. I wondered about mating too Gilli..it could have also had a kill and was keeping others away.

Trust you lot to go barking up the wrong end of the story....tsk. I was riding with my GIRL friend - she worked at the stables and I used to escape from work early twice a week to go riding and we used to go off together....you can't just hire a horse and go off by yourself here - probably to do with insurance - you're SUPPOSED to go in 3's in fact, but because they knew us they were happy for us to go out as a 2 and we used to have a good old natter along the way - surprised those deer didn't hear us coming a mile off! I was doing a really stressful job at the time - think the riding was the only thing keeping me sane!

I saw a mother moose with a calf when I visited Canada - big animals arn't they! Would have liked to have seen a bull (?) moose - bet he would be something!

I also saw something I took to be a coyote - sort of like a small wolf with reddish sides and a grey back - is that a coyote? I'm not keen on wolfs either Louise - I think it's something to do with the way they kill - they don't make a clean kill like a lion... Now Wyle-e-Coyote on the other hand I love!! Meep Meep!!

You are just no fun then Sid..nothing Juicy..just office stress...ho-hum...oh well at least you were riding and that is good...lol..Yes does sound like a coyote..Wolves are highly intelligent..would like one for a friend and not an enemy however. Weeds...did you not once have a wolf cross as a pet?

We did have a hybrid wolf dog, shepard and red wolf. Very much like a shepard with yellow wolf eyes, rusty colored, beautiful, gentle guy. Loved people, he once "helped" a thief to steal our ladders out of our back yard. :-) They are banned now, I think, I don't know why-there are many
non-hybrid dogs out there that are far less domesticated than he was. He didn't bark...but he was a "howling fool" if someone howled at him. His name was Moose. :-)

LOL..David loved that dog..he talked about him so much... :) Sounds precious and delightful..there are wolf hybrids still around.. I am sure of it..

For a while they were talking about having an exotic pet license of some kind for them. I have never heard of one being viscious.

There is a guy up near my work that has a wolf hybrid. Lovely dolf, or is that wog? LOL

I am sure a wolf hybrid would be not be vicious. For one thing, I think it's people that make bad dogs (and horses). And for the other thing, a wolf is just a wolf, whereas a dog might have been bred for generations to bring out his agressive/protective side to make a guard dog or whatever. Pit bull types are very much in fashion over here now.....

Pit bulls seem to be the dog that people here get if they feel threatened by whatever in the world around them. The best pit bulls here are the ones that belong to ordinary people who love them and treat them like ordinary dogs. You're right Sid, bad people make bad dogs.
I'll put up a picture of Moose in my photos.

I'd like that :-)

Well the pitbullI that I have been babysitting looks like a Shitzu and Pomerian mix..lol..Munchie went out this morning and barked a deer away, it had been eating some of my Hebe's that the realtor brought for me to pot up. He had jumped my back fence and come right up to the deck by my door!..

Munchie, the king of the wild frontier! I'm amazed that your "pet" deer are so unafraid and so up close and personal. There is so much area there with green grass and shrubs and fruit trees I wonder why they venture onto your porch! Ours come in the yard but the woods here are dry and food is sparse and so is fresh water so the green in the yards and gardens draws them. Munchie, sic'em! get'em boy! take'em out!

Hope Munchie ran 'em ragged ;-)

He keeps them on the run..lol..and is so proud of himself over it!

he he I can imagine! Sounds like my cat running the ducks off the lawn - it would have scared her half to death if they had just stood their ground - she wouldn't have known what to do!

Can I ask a really silly question? What does "sic'em" mean.....I've heard this watching American TV LOL and I know it means you want the dog to attack something......but does it actually mean anything? Where does it come from?

Weeds?...I dunno..I rarely use the term to my dogs..lol..don't want to encourage them...not sure where it comes from...lol...just means ..get em..some how...?

No idea here......just thought it was some wierd Canadian saying..... :o)

I’ve seen it in a dictionary spelled “sick,” as in “sick him!” This use is first recorded in 1845 and may come from a dialectal version of seek, “to look for” or “to pursue.”

Could be Gilli. When I was growing up, when the neighbor's herefords were in the yard eating the flowers and my Dad would say to our border collie type dog, "Ring, go get em, sic'em. And Old Ring thought that meant "Go get those durned cows out of the sweetpeas." And he did.

MaGoofy, the teenage cat, was stalking the deer in the back yard tonight, don't know what he'd do if he caught one.

Oh...lol..I love the "Ring" stories..lol...and your dad and how he loved the animals..you could write a "Ring" book..you know. that McGoofy too..lol..I can just see him hanging off the hindquarters of a deer bouncing off in the twilight...lol...his eyes would be huge and looking back at you but afraid to let go!...lol

You should have seen Magoo all flattened out in the grass and setting his hind feet like a lion. I tried to save him from the fate you mentioned by waving my arms and throwing dirt clods at the deer. The deer just looked at both of us and decided neither of us was a big threat and went back to eating. Eventually the wind changed and the dirt from the clods blew in my eyes and I said, "Magoofy Cat, go get em, sic'em!"

Ring was the epitomy of dogdom.

Hmmm - ah well, dare say there are plenty of things I say that I don't actually know where they come from or mean......Gilli's 'seek him' sounds likely - sounds like something someone might say to a hunting dog.

Had to have a laugh at Magoofy hunting deer! That sounds like one optimistic cat!! One problem - he'd never get it through the cat-flap. Does he realise that?! lol

Sid, so true, so much of what we say comes from our ancestors and what it meant in their world is lost on us.
My mom used to use "Find Ann" a lot. My mom worried about my sister because she was epileptic and Ring would "seek" her. Amazing what dogs can learn without actually being taught.
Magoofy trying to stuff a struggling deer through the cat-flap paints quite a picture. :-D Wouldn't be the first time that one of the cats brought me a live gift.

oh my...cats do love to do their part feeding us..lol...
my dogs, who on the other hand, definetly expect, me, as the alpha dog to bring home the bacon... like the words ....load up...means get in ..we are going now..favorite word of all time for them I think...lol. Especially after I say..where's your clothes?(halters) lol.....Their heads jerk up like they have just been hit with a bolt of electricity....lol..and the shivering and wimpering and excitement begins... :) one of the favorite times in my day...

Wonder why dogs love to ride in the car? You'd think it would terrify them. "Gotta git m' clothes on, we're goin'. Pant pant. I call shotgun. No you got shotgun yesterday and you licked the winder. I'm mona stick my head out an snuff all da sniffs! Pant pant." How funny!

They are just in love with going...lol..and visiting..lol...smelling all the news and seeing if anyone commented on what they have left last time they were there...lol...

Wait, this sounds familiar, where have I experienced this before? Comments ...sounds familiar.... :-)

hmmm....? sounds a bit GOY like...LOL!

Just a Bit :-)

Sniff, sniff, sniff.........

There has been a lot of goyers here..sniff..sniff...think a dog nose senses it much quicker than our scrolling up and down to see does...

Sniff, read, sniff, scroll, scroll, read, chuckle, sniff, read, LOL, read, scroll.
Flowers, bugs, dogs, plants, trees, cats, life, food, blossoms, green houses, fences, castles. Scroll, scroll, sniff.

I can't smell anything......but I've got a cold :-S

The great thing is that GoY will still be here when your sniffer gets better. Hope you're getting better!

So do I... Another great thing about GoY is that I can chat to people without spreading my germs about. Not holding out much hope for the other folks in this office however........<evil laugh>..... >;-D

That flying pig flu..knocked down your defences Sid..take care of you! Lots of V8 type juices and proteins..to rebuild..and rest..do not over do! You are going to relapse missy... get the low sodium V8 mind you...

Thank you Cat :-) Really, tho, it's not as if I'm working hard today lol Think everyone here's forgotten about me - I've got the whole ground floor to myself... ;-)

Well just don't be over working and when you get home eat and go to bed...no late nights...oh ..dear I have been a mom too long...

Nope, not forgotten. Just got a call from the accountant. Well, that's reassuring I suppose...

Eat and go to bed when I get home?! No gardening??!! No mucking about with Birtie??!! No watching the late night scary films??!!

ONLY if you are not sniffling and coughing..bundle up if you must walk about your garden..and only do bits and pieces but do not wear yourself out..Birtie will be happy to cuddle and purr...only watch early night scary movies...lots of rest, healthy drinks and good eats are the rule..until you are all well..you are very lucky to have come through it....without having to go to the hospital..you didn't did you? Do not press your luck... xx ~Cat

Catwoman-mom. Where were you when I jammed my toe last week? I could have used some of this advice and been happy to take it!

oh...kisses..need someone to blow? did you keep your foot up or did you go around walking on it and complaining? Did it swell?..Well if it did you should have put it up...cannot help you if you do not tell me..now I am being given mommy guilt..plplplplttttttt....tttt....

Thank's Cat-Mom, but you're too late, (guilt, guilt, guilt!) next time I'll send photos, can't get any sympathy here unless there is profuse bleeding. :-[

sorry...guilt.....ridden.....for sure now......

hope your happy... :p

Thanks for your concern Cat - I'm almost better now and was never so bad as to even consider doctors and hositals - gah! Dare say I did a fair bit of unnecessary moaning and groaning to get some extra sympathy and stayed in bed a little longer than I strictly needed too ;-D

That sort of flu hurts like crazy...yuck...had something like it in the 70's..hong kong flu..what a horrible thing that one was...ached forever it seemed..very high fevers.. 104 and just terrible coughs..all of my children, my husband and I had it..very bad..stuff..

Moaning and groaning is never unnecessary. Misery should always be shared!

Oh yeah Sid..what Weeds said for sure..let them feel your pain!

Oh, no fear, I did, I did! lol It worked too....at one point I was brought a plate of fish and chips and a big bag of Malteasers on a tray!!! Luxury.....I should get ill more often I think. I don't know what I had Cat - it was kinda flu-ey but wasn't as bad as full-blown-flu.....didn't get ackes and pains and didn't get a high fever....just a low one ;-)

I'm glad you're better Sid, and you deserved the chips and malt teasers! So nice you have someone who cares enough to do that.

Ooooo.....yummy....fish and chips and malteasers on a tray??? Gosh. I'd have to be dying to get that kind of treatment. Lucky you Sid.....glad you're feeling better.

If I moan in front of my dogs..they just go to the other room or turn their back on me..no help at all..not even a bite of kibble dropped in my lap....

:( no use moaning around here.....

Mr. Weedy has asked me out to dinner tonight, but fish and chips and malteasers on a tray...never happen. Aw well, ya can't have everything, I'll settle for this. Could be worse...way worse.

That Mr. Weedy and what a charming gentlemen to have dinner with! Enjoy !... :o)

The restaurant was crowded for a Tuesday night but the food and company was good.

I think everyone should insist on fish and chips and malteasers in bed at least once in a while.... ;-)