I am going to stick my neck out and say middle of summer when the baby frogs and the dragonflys have left,and because of the fish I would say not all the water.

early spring before frogs and fish etc spawn.

any weed you remove allow to drain so that inverts can crawl back to the water.
I usually do mine feb as long as it isnt frozen. a complete change will result in green water for a short time until the larger plants get growing and remove all the spare nutrients.

I put our fish into an old water tank if there are only a few. last year I used the paddling pool, netted to keep cats and herons off.
leave the clean water to stand for 2-3 days so the chlorine dissipates away.

Thanks for your advice both. Feb sounds good Sbg, so long as it's thawed by then!! I plan to replace the water with rainwater from the butts, so hopefully I wont have the green water / chlorine problem. Am I right that frogs hibernate at the bottom of ponds? I don't want to disturb them if that is right.

I don't think that there is a 'good' time to clean out a pond. In the winter all the wee beasties are hibernating in the bottom of the pond and in summer it is full of life. We do ours in the autumn and leave vegetation on the side of the pond for a few days so that invertabrates have a chance to crawl back.
There, Sid, three of us have resp[onded and you have three different answers. Thats GoY!

duck weed and blanket weed wil eesy move, so no keep hte dwarf water lilly and oxygenating weed
hte goldfish can movee to new cleen water of sam temp- leeve bowl in pond for some time) -
use big baht of new water an alow life to jump to it from old pond as you slow empty it over a few day
hten scrub old pond cleen- reely cleen.
hten fill wiht buath water an restok

I do mine in the autumn too.

i do it in early spring as the water i have to replace it with is from the hose as it holds 2000 gallons .most pond fish can handle the chlorine realy well bye nature there tuff excuse my spelling.carp ie koi and goldfish come from crusian and common carp . these come from ponds with no filter or running water as do rudd,tench and even perch and can handle virtualy being frozen to into the hundreds in summer .ow and now theres grass carp.consider that if a humans temperiture goes up or down more than 8-10 degrees we die .if your going to get an algi bloom its about spring when the water is clear from winter and the higher plants havnt started growing yet.algi needs a lot of sun to survive.if you look at a pond full of higher plants or with cover next to a pond without there is a world of differance.my pond has a pump in one of those cages running to a filter that has milk crates at the bottem with chicken wire on top.its then coverd in bbq charcoal to the top of the water level.then its got tescos water cress in it.i never have to clean the pond out ever.the filter is the only bit that gets sun for the cress .the rest has a pagoda over the top.then that split bamboo on a roll over that with an ornimentle grapevine .it is clear as a bell 11 months of the year.clearer than my tap water apart from tannin ie a little brown hugh.in feb it will green up a little.the cost of covering my pond is no higher plants in it.my pond is not dug out at all and is 3 breeze blocks deep. this stops debry blowing in.theres no reasen that some well established lillies wont do what my pagoda does ie cut out the light but they need to cover a good third to a half of the pond.they do grow realy well though . i actualy use a header tank and pond pump in my 180 gallon tank and that is just as clear.if i treat the pond or tank i just put a tea spoon of sea salt a gallon in them.i keep sterlet up 2 3 feet long so i have to have running water and fairly cool.also like most of the shark family they cant swim backwards and in summer need to move to breath hence know lillies.the benefits of my pond is know uv light every year.seeing my fish real close and ofcourse great if you like water cress . there is a lot of misinformation about fish keeping.like you need 6 feet or more water to keep koi or you can turn the filter of in winter .oxygen only enters the water through the serfice and making waves waterfalls all increase the serfice area a lot and the same for tanks.cold water holds more oxygen than warm and fresh water holds more than salt water.anyway i hope thats bean helpfull lol
ps you can at a push clean your pond out any time apart from deep winter when the fish are dorement and in a torper or in the heat of mid summer when its hard to keep oxygen in a warm smaller container.the reasen out of spring and autum realy is as long as its tall.i just like a clean start and any gunge makes great fertilizer for plants in spring.in the autum if you clean it you dont run the risk of rotting vegitation killing your fish if and when your pond freezes.

I use Barley Straw to keep my pond from going green as for the blanket weed I use a small fork on a long handle to take it out with and leave B/weed on side for a few days so insects can go back to the pond, then I put it on the weed on compost. I also only take a third of the water out sometimes and top up with tap water, I don't use the rain water that runs off the roof that has been collected in a water butt as it may end up with something in it that could cause a problem for the fish.

bye the way sid all i see is a dolphin when i look at your avitar lol still.

thats good to ladyessex but i just prefer prevention than cure.the ultra violet lights that kill alge also lose some of the spectrums of light that kill alge in just a year .there so many ideas and types of water feacture .if i had a natural pond i would probably never clean it or even have fish .i wish i had more land lol.

many inverts and amphibians hide in the mud thats why I only clean our pond every 3-5 years. many inverts like dragonflies spend 3 yrs in the pond and only last one yr as free flying adults. I tend to clean the works ornamental pond late autumn but i find my own pond still has intresting plant life then, hence the spring clean. I ofetn work through the mud looking for the invert larvae and pop them in a large bucket with the some of the plants.

if you have water hyacinths they overwinter in the mud in a small 'pip' like structure smaller than a cherry stone. It was a while before i realised thats why i lost them. so when i have them and i know the pond is to be cleaned i fish them out well before they go dormnant.

im with you seaburn.you do apreciate if your fish breed dragonfly nymphs are there worst nightmare . ive never had to clean my pond out in 10 years or my tank as it goes except i moved the tank once .depends what sort of pond you keep i guess. take care bye for now.

Thanks for your ideas guys - it seems there is not really good time to do it. As it happens, there is not really much wildlife in my pond - it's got steep sides so is not great for wildlife. It was really the frogs I was worrying about as I want to encourage them so they eat the slugs!

I don't actually have any problem with algae in there....probably coz no light gets through coz of the thick duckweed - that's the real problem. And to think I was so delighted when I spotted the first tiny green leaf floating on the surface! If only I had scooped it out when it was just that one bit!!!!!!!

I think the shade caused by the duckweed was the reason my water lilly didn't flower last summer at all. I'm hoping that if I get rid of it all then my water lilly will do better. And I'll be able to see / feed the fish!

NP - many thanks - you are an expert! lol I only have two tiny goldfish in there - I put them there to eat the mozzy larva - and although I look like a dolphin, I don't live in there myself LOL And anyway, how come you've turned into Blanch? Are you barking mad about something?!

no im just barking mad sid lol .your lilly should outgrow the duck weed bye the nature of it.if you look at the buds and leaf shoots they are pointed for the very purpous of getting through and above the likes of duck weed . they then rise out of the water and steal the light.duck weed is lots of single cell plants like algi just strung together and also needs lots of light.i think perhaps your lilly isnt mature enough to flower yet .if you get rid of the duck weed you will get rid of the cover and youl have algi again.its quite natural for the pond and wildlife and frogs like to lay there eggs in it.dont worry the lilly is a higher plant that not only will steel the light in time but also the food the duck weed craves .as for frogs they have a homing instinct so the best way of getting them is to go find a pond with eggs next month.when they hatch and leave they will be conditioned to come back to your pond.seeing in your pond only helps the human being it doesnt help the nature realy though i see your reasen for wanting to as higher mammals we are bye nature mammals that like to see whats happening.nature knows best and your pond will do the right thing.saying that if you feal you want to take duck weed out then go for it .anyway take care and goodbye for now xx .

the best fish for a nature pond if you can find them are stickleback as dragon fly lava are there mane diet .goldfish however can grow to 2kilos and are omniverous like us .if you have children and know of a nice natural pond you could have a great day out with a net finding these little critters.male stickleback in breeding colours are one of the most beautifull fish we have .anyway enough of my ramblings take care bye bye .

Thanks NP - yes, I can see what you mean about the lilly leaves being designed to get above the duckweed. The big leaves did get above it last year, but as I say, no flowers appeared. It did flower the first year and I got it from a water lilly nursery and they told me that I didn't need to repot it or anything, as it was already established in a suitable sized container. I haven't fed it at all, which might be the problem tho. I did have frogspawn in there last year..and lots of little tiny froglets! :-)

Sad news yesterday - the ice on the pond finally thawed and one of my little fishes had died :-( The other one is ok. I'll get him a friend in the spring and I think I'll net them out and bring them inside next winter..... Bye for now NP/Blanch.

the lilly will probably burst out of its container in the end .they can be quite invasive in the wrong enviroment .in nature most ponds get to deep in the middle so lillies,iris etc cant go mad .ive butcherd lots of my lillies in the past as theyve grown to well.as for your goldfish they had to rely on the desolved oxygen that was under the ice and being a nature pond not much probably .your right to bring them in i guess. take care sid bye for now xx

so sorry to hear the death of one of your fishes...sob....i did wonder if mine would survive such a frozen pond...i do worry about them down there..i stared at one for ages thining it was frozen, but alas all was ok, now they are all at the top shouting for food...i origanally came to this site to find out when was the best time to clean out pond?..i rekon, not to do it in winter like someone said..(because of them hibernating).rest of year is 'take a chance'...but tonight i have 3 frogs all hanging around!.. they come here most years to mate....did it april (ish) last time, i saved about 100 tadpoles , but it had to be done, really creamy greeny colour...

Thanks Lyn......I've got more sad news.....I replaced the dead one about a month ago and I found that one dead too now! Don't know whether to get another one or not.....I feel sorry for the one remaining on its own as I know the are social, but I don't want to doom yet another fish :-( Don't know why it died, as I did clean out the pond - it was a good job I did as there were about 7 dead frogs at the bottom!!!! So the water was nice and clean out of the water butt when the new fish went it..... :-S

Sorry about your fish Sid. Have you done a ph test on the water ? I did mine in Feb and it was 7.5 which is good,but as they haven't been fed over winter it has hardly changed since I last tested it in Dec.
At the moment it is clear but has lots of 'greenery' coating the sides,and debri on the bottom so I too will need to clean it out and try to get it balanced again.
I read somewhere that we are 'water keepers' not 'fish keepers' as if the water isn't in balance the fish etc won't be happy.

Hi Aster - the water was just rainwater out of the water butt so I would have thought it was fine. The remaining fish seems ok, so I'm wondering if the fish was unwell already. Never done a pH test on the water - do you need to buy a special kit?

omg...7 dead frogs,have you ever heard of that before??? i rekon dont put any fish in there...not till you get it checked out...sad...my pond was cleaned out this time last year,it was lovely and clear for about a month,then went all murky again.i loved watching them swimming around...its hellofa job to get it all out...thinking of putting the hose in it and another sucking it out till it clears...(cheating)

just get some cover on your ponds and they wont go merky.
i think sid youve cleaned out the pond while the fish are still partly in a winter torpa but with the dead frogs there bodies would have rotted and killed them.why dont you weight a month and buy a couple of fish.they mite do better. the frogs are used to a lot of mild winters jumped in ya pond and got to cold but i dont know for sure.

Yes Sid you can get a tester kit from your GC or pet store.I like to do it as a guide to when to partially change the water.
When I first got the barrel pond I bought a couple of fish adding them after leaving it to mature for a few weeks.They darted around and looked generally uncomfortable.After testing the water it showed it was too acidic so I was able to part change some water and they settled down.
I agree with NP about the frogs,but you weren't to know they were there and as you say,lucky you cleaned it out then otherwise you would have lost both fish.

I completely emptied the pond and found about 3 live frogs, which I put safely to one side and put back afterwards. I was shocked to find the 7 dead ones... I wonder if the oxygen levels just fell too low while they were hibernating at the bottom of the pond?

Worryingly, my remaining fish is now looking a bit dodgy...it seemed listless today when I stood over the pond - I looked closely and I *think* I could see fungus on its sides :-( Not sure what to do....seems the thing to do would be to get it out of there, but then would the shock of moving it to a tank also kill it (if would have to be a small tank with the same rain water from the water butt). Don't know what to do :-(

just bucket the water from the pond into your container then put a teaspoon of sea salt per gallon in it to help it recover.the chances are though with all that rotting fless it mite just be to late but its worth a try.

In your original question you said that the pond was covered in a thick layer of ice.If you weren't able to keep a breathing hole, that is most likely to have killed the frogs.The fungus could be caused by a build up of amonia / nitrites from the rotting frogs.
In the past I've treated aquarium fish with products from the pet store,or as NP says with a salt solution.I don't know if just cleaning out the pond would work though,you may have to treat that as well.Not with salt though,do you have a local pond/fish specialist to advise you ? Unless NP can recommend any products :)

i digress aster salt is a great tonic for most problems.look after the water and the fish will look after themselves .as i mentioned ofcourse its the rotting frogs and ice that did it. it probably would of done it without the ice sid .if i lose one barb in mt 200 gallon tank and it gets hidden up it soon makes the water misty can you imagine all them frogs in there.ive kept fish since i coulld reach into my dads pond and im now 49 . wisdom is quite often much better than what a aquarist shop tells you.this happens in all walks of life . its well worth reading between the lines as people who sell a product are going to scratch wear you itch as there biast for obvious reasens excuse my spelling.

Thanks NP and Aster. Little Fishy is still alive and actually seemed a bit brighter yesterday. I will try and catch it and put it in a bucket with some salt. Can I just ask a stupid question - how much water does an avridge bucket hold?! I never know what a gallon or a litre or whatever looks like! And how long should I leave the fish in the salty water? And should I feed it? And where should I place the bucket ideally? Soz for all the questions ;-)

8 pints is a gallon so if you get your measuring jug from the kitchen you can see how many it takes to fill the container.if the container is to big see how many pints go in a bucket and use that.remember one tea spoon a gallon.bear im mind a gallon of water weighs 10 pounds before you try to carry to much.take care bye for now sid xx.you could use an old milk bittle for the same thing to.

Fish are most susceptible to bacteria and parasites in spring and shouldn't be fed until temperatures are stable.They usually feed on the algae if hungry which is better than eating too much of the wrong type of food.You may have to supplement your poorly fishes diet as it will be in salt water with no other nutrients.Try a little feed (low protein) to see if it is interested but remove it if not.

Thanks NP - I will try it tomorrow. I think you're right about the decaying frogs fouling the water and that the ice probably killed them. I thought it would be ok coz I completely changed the water with rainwater out of hte water butt, but I guess the damage had already been done.

How long should I leave my fish in the salt water....until it's better or just for a short time?

Thanks Aster.

yes i think so the frogs had become acustomed to mild winters and jumped in to early bless them . if your goldfish dies id be inclined to keep it totaly wildlife pond myself .shows they like your pond to have nine.its ironic the commen frog is rare now isnt it.they could of bean toads or do you know the differance ? i was sitting in my mums the other day in the semmy dark and my mum thaught the dog had had an axident till it moved lol .that turned out to be a frog lol.anyway good luck take care bye for now sid xx.

I put the pond in in the first place to attract frogs, so they'd eat the slugs. But the pond was full of mozzy larva, which is why I got a fish so it would eat them.....and then I had to get another fish to keep it company!! I know I'm soft lol They were defo frogs BTW - frogs have smooth skin and toads have warty skin, also toads are a bit smaller and I think they only go in water to breed, whereas frogs like to hang about water all year. I THINK, I may be wrong here, but I think male frogs hibernate under leaves and stuff and female frogs hibernate in the sludge at the bottom of the pond.....so I'm hoping that it wasn't all the females that died, as that will mean not much spawn. If my fish does die, then I don't think i'll get another as I don't want to doom another fish!

How long shoudl my fish stay in teh salty water BTW?

hello sid.the toads are warty so your right about that but they are bigger than frogs.i believe the males get in the pond first to call to the females and get a bit of territory.bothe species have similer habits and only mostly go in the pond to breed though they do come back sometimes if they live close.it wont hert if you put a tea spoon of salt per gallon in your pond.if you cant measure that i would just put the fish in the pond after its settled a bit.goldfish arnt ideal for getting rid of mozzy larva realy . the best thing is to get a kids net and the kids perhaps and catch some stickleback as they are used to not much oxygen and bye size and nature eat mozzie larva as part of there diet.goldfish can grow to over 4lb in weight and soon lose interest in mossy larva.mozzies dont like moving water either.i hope thats helped take care bye for now sid and good luck xx.