What do you know about this plant? Does it flower, have berries, whatever, when its healthy? Is it deciduous or evergreen?

Hi Bamboo, thanks for quick response! It doesn't flower or have berries and if my memory is correct grows about 5 metres high. Drops leaves in autumn. When I see the man who sold it too me maybe he will remember what it is as can't find the tag that came with it!

Hopefully Fractal will see this and ID it for you - I'm still thinking maybe Cornus, but not sure. Seems to me that, if it doesn't flower, the best thing might be to cut the thing right back in midwinter, when its dormant - unless you want wait and see if it grows alright next year. Suggest we wait for possible ID first though.

Thanks Bamboo, Cornus is Dogwood isn't it? I will wait till next year before I do anything with it.

Two other things it reminds me of as well though - Hornbeam (Carpinus) and Elm (Ulmus) because of the impressed leaves with serration - that basically means I haven't got a clue what it is, lol!

It's undoubtedly a Carpinus - Hornbeam. It could well have been a seedling in the pot of whatever you thought you were planting or one that took over from whatever was in the pot before you acquired it.

I didn't see your original question Lulu, but it looks like it suffered from a lack of water several months ago, which I'm sure Bamboo will already have suggested to you? It is certainly very much alive though, as the new-ish foliage in your pics shows. Young trees will abort some or all of their foliage in times of stress in order to prevent themselves from desiccating.

Given that it's:
a) nearly autumn
and
b) pretty wet weather at last,

I would leave the whole plant alone for now and wait to see which branches produce new growth in Spring, then prune out the dead or leaf-less branches...that's assuming you want to give pride of place in your lawn to a large hedging tree in the first place!

Well thank goodness for that, a definite ID. Unless you think you had a particular cultivar, I'd be inclined to get rid of it - if its a basic hornbeam, it'll get pretty large, much larger than you've suggested, Lulu. Possible it was a grafted plant and the rootstock's taken over, maybe. I'm curious about the japonica name you thought it was, though.
Addition - just checked, there is a Carpinus japonica, gets 20-30 feet by the same wide, leave it, its a nice tree, unless you don't want something that large. That explains where you got the japonica from, lol! and it does have a sort of flower that's quite interesting, too - Google it for images.

I should say that there is actually a Carpinus japonica, so it's possible that that's what you have.

We have one alongside some other Carpinus species in the garden here, but it's not really what you'd call "ornamental" in any great way, though it's quite rare in British cultivation...it's also extremely difficult to tell most of Carpinus species apart (aside from the awesome C. fangiana) unless you have the catkins or fruit to hand!

beat me to it Bamboo! :-)

Oh yea - snap!

Goodness gracious me, what a conundrum this 'Tree' has been!! I am sure I saw it's like at Westonbirt , big and beautiful and I bought it at a specialist nursery. I have always loved it and yes it does have a hornbeam leaf but hope it's not!!. I will prey that it recovers because it would hide a really horrid telephone pole with a big metal box attached to it and however much it's hit by lightening it still doesn't fall down!
Will let you know how it grows next year. And thanks very much for all your help.

Well it is a hornbeam - Carpinus japonica, Lulu!

Just had a thought..was planning on going to the festival of the tree at Westonbirt tomorrow, I will try to hunt out that tree amongst the thousands of others, will let you know if I find it. Watch this space!

Oh! is that an oh dear, I don't know yet!!

Google carpinus japonica - nice pics available.

Ok, done that, no fruits, hops or anything like that!! oooh, the plot thickens, you will all be sick of me by the time we have worked this out!!

Or maybe I am being obtuse!!?

Lulu,

They certainly have a fine collection of Carpinus at Westonbirt, so you would have been able to seen all the species there. Can you remember the name of the nursery that you got yours from? C. japonica usually has slightly longer leaves than yours, but then your plant is obviously stressed and is not producing full size (or colour) foliage. All of the C. japonica in the UK are seed-grown, so there's some variance in their appearance too.

No other genus of hardy trees has that deeply corrugated, relatively elongated and narrow leaf - Ostrya japonica (another Hornbeam) has wider, less furrowed leaves; a few Sorbus (Whitebeams) have similar furrows but much larger leaves, whilst Zelcova & Ulmus (the Elms) have less corrugation and distinctively different shaped leaves...Nothofagus nervosa is the closest to the Carpinus' in leaf, but is generally more narrowed at the base and is, in any case, extremely rarely found for sale anywhere in the UK.

Also, our C. japonica is approx 12 years old (and a fair bit larger than yours seems to be) and has yet to produce any fruit....all trees produce some form of fruiting body, it's just that some are much more showy & conspicuous than others!

And to add to Ilex's tactful response, frankly, yours is in such a sorry state I wouldn't have expected any 'flowers' on it this year. But both Ilex and I, I believe, are telling you there is no doubt that it is Carpinus japonica - I only told you to Google it so you could see what it would look like if it was healthy.

Oh I hope you don't think I wasn't taking you all seriously, it;s just that it hasn't flowered in five years so I wasn't sure. As Japonica is the name I remembered, I thought it must somehow be related. I know it's in a sorry state but it has looked so good for the past five years i was rather sad to see it start to relapse. But C. Japonica must be the right tree..................Maybe I will replace it with a large red hazelnut tree!

Ilex, it was Sherston Parva nurseryin Wiltshire where I bought the tree. They used to sell unusual plants way back when I worked there about 3 years ago and sadly the nursery has gone to seed now.

Hmm...interesting. Sherston Parva was a Clematis specialist nursery if I remember? It's such a shame that so many small nurseries have failed to survive over the last few years.

There was an importation of C. japonica seed (and lots of other Asian species) between 10 & 15 years ago and quite a few nurseries grew plants on from there, that's where ours came from and perhaps yours too?

It is supposed to be attractive when it's bearing lots of catkins & fruit, but unless you're attached to it I would say there are many more ornamental options for the garden.

We have 5 Carpinus species here and I can honestly say that (aside from C. fangiana, which is fabulous) they are the least interesting trees in the garden. They are meant to have some autumn colour as well as pink tinged foliage in spring, but none of them do that for us, and none have put out more than the occasional catkin so far, sadly :-(

You live in the balmy south west, don't you Ilex - I was just wondering if you don't get the pink tints because its not cold enough, is that possible? Would they be more likely to appear in colder areas?

We are indeed in the south-west Bamboo, but sadly it's far from balmy here in windswept North Devon! Depending on the temps we get really excellent autumn colour here on most things that are supposed to have colour...many are going into autumn colour now, in fact (which is not unusual here) to give you an idea of how un-balmy the garden is!!

But you're quite right that it's probably our maritime climate that's to blame for the lack of colour on the Carpinus'...perhaps when they are older they will have more of a fruiting display to make up for it.

I all just an update from last years question! I just found or re found the Common Hornbeam Tree in Westonbirt Arboretum this w/end. It's a lovely tree with an amazing trunk and large to say the least! It's the last photo on my westonbirt blog.
Well my little Hornbeam has only one surviving trunk this Spring and if I prune off the dead there won't be much left on it! I may replace it with the red leaved hazel as I love the nuts and it would be in an area of the garden where it can grow big.