We grow both, Helenium; I suppose that you could say that they are in the sun some of the time and in shade for other. I don't think that they are too fussy provided that they get a mostly moist soil with plenty of humus.

One of the Cimicifuga is in full sun for a long time - I have a south facing garden with no shelter from trees etc! I'll just have to make sure it has a good water supply, mind you in this garden it wont be difficult for the plant to find water!

Thanks for your help Bulbaholic, it's much appreciated!