Oregon Pictographs from another time.

Fascinating... thanks you

Wow, very interesting, are we not lucky to now have central heating, although it would have been great to live & observe their 4 a Spring & Summer. What an fabulous experience you had.

Amazing stuff weeds...it's great to actually see evidence of people's past lives.

Wow ...very cool...That area of Oregon is very interesting. Thanks for the pics...!

This is a fascination of mine, glad you all enjoyed it.

Doon, it couldn't have been an easy life. Wish we knew more about them.

Fluff, on your side of the ocean, you probably see more ancient history just going to town that we see here in a lifetime. Except for the Native Americans who go back 12 or 13 thousand years, our human history here goes back less than 1000 years.

That was very interesting. Thank you.

B. -Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks for bringing out these images from a place so inaccessible, and for restoring habitat for the steelheads.

Fascinating blog - we could learn a thing or two from these cultures.

Orgratis, I wish I had been able to explore more of the area. Bureau of Land Management is very protective of those ancient sites, we were lucky to be shown the caves we saw.
There had been a very dry year, in some places there were pools of trapped foot long steelhead down there. The Fish and Game Department netted them and hauled them out to a safer place while the river bed was being restored.

Wagger, imagine what they had to know just to live each day.

They were so in tune with nature!

Their lives must have been simple and complex, both. I wonder if that canyon where they lived has changed in climate since they were there. Right now it's a very forbidding place to be.

Facinating stuff there Weeds - do you do the conservation work as a volunteer? In the past I have volunteered for The Nature Trust here in the UK, looking after various local nature reserves - it's lovely to get 'hands-on' in some really beautiful tucked-away sites. It's a funny thing with the really anciant archaeology in this country - during much of the pre-history the sea level was lower and the people lived on the lowest ground, which, unfortunately, is now underneath the sea! There is much archaeology undiscovered beneath the waves.....

Sid, Sorry to say I didn't volunteer. My kids have signed us up to volunteer on local digs but haven't had a chance to take part yet. (Fossil sites, I think.)
How far below the sea are the ancient sites? That's very interesting!
We were fortunate to be asked to do the work, one of the companies we do work for is a pipeline company, their pipeline in combination with the changes in the river course due to heavy run off a couple of years ago caused changes to the stream bed causing problems for the spawning fish.

With the river there..I am sure it was more than likely a spring area..they most often were nomadic were they not? Moving with the seasons? I would be looking forward to that spot if I had lived then with them..

You're quite right weeds...we're surrounded by history here...but it's amazing to see something previously undiscovered & so ancient.

Cat, you're right, it may have been a spring fishing camp for them, the big steelhead come into that area in late winter & early spring. The archeologist suggested it might have been a deer hunting camp too. Judging by the number of rock chips from knapping arrows they must have had hunting plans.

Fluff, judging from the lack of beer cans and graffiti :-) we were not the first in there but at least there weren't droves of people in there over the years.

I am sure they used the camp up until they were sent off to the reservations..some most likely hid there as well. I doubt if they died there in that cave. I am not totally sure but it seems for the most part they rarely died inside. I would rather not myself.

The cave in the pix with the waterfall is more than 100 ft up a steep rocky hillside above the main trail coming down the middle of the canyon, this and another similar place on the trail beyond this would have been perfect lookouts or blinds for hunting animals. As I said this one had a pit house in it and had a lot of pictographs on the walls and the ground was covered with shards. Makes me think that whoever lived here was an influencial member of the band. Just think, he or she had running water right outside his door.

Very cool...good spot.

He he..I have no idea how far below sea level these sites are - they are undiscovered you see. But the sea level was once far lower than it is today and the British Isles were a larger area and connected to the continent by a land bridge whcih allowed animals and humanoides to pass between the land masses. The land of today, in pre-history, would have been the uplands. The lowlands of pre-history are now below sea level. There are one or two places around the coast where at a very low tide the remains of ancient forests become exposed. They are preserved by the sea water nowadays and are what remains of vast areas of forest and marshland. There is an area of the North Sea (that's the body of water to the right of Great Britain on the map) where fishing boats regularly pick up mammoth bones in their nets! One of the most famous sites is where a Neanderthal burial was discovered in a cave. The cave is now high up a cliff by the sea (I forget where, sorry!) but archaeologists think that when the burial took place, the cave was in fact inland and in an inaccessable place half way up a rocky bluff, and not by the sea at all. It took archaeology by storm as it was obviously a very carefull burial - there were shells and pebbles arranged carefully around the body and the whole burial had been sprinkled with red ocre. This proved that Neanderthal Man was not the thuggish brute the Victorians would have had us believe, but an intelligent sophisticated being that mourned and respected his dead. Recent research has shown they were on a separate evolutionary branch to Homo sapiens sapiens (us) and Homo erectus (our direct ancestors and who co-existed with Neanderthal Man in Europe), with the consequent rather profound meaning that our species is not the only intelligent species ever to have existed on this planet. We are not alone...........

Sid, I had to go look up your land bridge. According to my quick read, it was in place as late as 12,000 BP which is the same time that the land bridge across the Bering Strait was in place. I've read a couple of articles about the migration of several species during those times. One migration that I thought was interesting was the early horses. According to what I read, they originated in the Americas and migrated to Asia and became extinct here... then the Spanish brought them back during their conquests and reintroduced them.
The Neanderthal thing is fascinating, I'm going to look it up when I get back a little later. Thanks for sharing!

The totally useless information I've got floating around in my head.......LOL Wish I could replace it with usefull stuff! I had an interesting conversation with Lori about Przewelski and Tarpan horses which you might find interesting....it was under one of her pictures....probably nothing to do with horses but you know how these things are! Isn't that strange that they became extinct them the Americas... Back to cave paintings, there are some wonderful ones in France depicting hunts of the prehistoric horses that inhabited Europe - they look very much like the Przewelski horses and were a major food source for the stoneage peoples.

Haha, yes difinitely a problem I have here too, I can't tell you how many things I remember from my childhood that I don't need that are still floating around in there!
I made a quilt a few years ago that I hand painted copies of those delightful cave paintings of the horses in France on some of the squares. Have always loved them. I love the quilt too.
If I remember what I read about the horses that were here, the ones that remained here became extinct because they were also a major food source for the early Native Americans here. If I can I will post a pix of the quilt on this blog.

Oh Weeds! The quilt is GORGEOUS!!! I would LOVE one like that! In case you ever tire of it... lol And I can't believe it is all hand stitched and the horses painted on! You are a talented person! Just beautiful............ :-o

Me again - been looking for info on that Neanderthal (knows as The Red Lady of Paviland because of the red ocre) and found this site:
http://www.explore-gower.co.uk/Content/pa=showpage/pid=33.html
It's a big hazy on what species it was, but seems to say it wasn't a Neanderthal....they might have changed their mind again about it since I did my A level in archaeology??!! But can't blame them - it's been dated to 24,000 years BC!!

Just checked what Wiki says, and they say it's 26,000 BC and then says 29,000........it's getting older by the minute! But it does say it was the "...oldest anatomically modern human...." so I guess I'm wrong about it being Neanderthal. Boo...I hate being wrong! Sorry for the misinformation! lol

I did a quick search and found a site that said "Derived from iron oxide ore, ocher has been found in association with prehistoric peoples on every continent except Antarctica. In Europe, ocher appears in burials as early as the Middle Paleolithic period. These early evidences were found on Neanderthal skeletons at Le Moustier and La Chapelle-aux-Saints, though its ritual use by this group remains a disputed hypothesis." (Middle Paleolithic was (I had to look it up) 300,000 to 30,000 years ago.)
So you're not wrong yet, they said it's "ritual use was disputed" -seems to me that if they buried them with ocher it had to be a ritual...right?.
Your Red Lady predates our Native Americans use of ocher by 10 or 15 thousand years. I'm going to look at the Red Lady site a little later.
Thank you for your comment on my quilt. It was an interesting project, someday I will do one with other cave paintings on it, it's a combination of two of my great loves.

Ah, well that's not too bad then....I guess over the years all that useless information floating around in my head gets bored, breaks into bits, and then joins up with other bits to form a sort of confused hash that I can't argue with! lol As Eric Morecambe might have said, all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order. (Eric Morecambe and Ernie Wise were a comedian doubleact in days gone by - very very well known here, but no idea whether they ever crossed the pond?) Anyway, I felt sure that Neanderthals had been proved to have used rituals.........although there is also evidence suggesting they were cannabalistic.....cut-marks on bones.........gruesom......

I mean every word I say about the quilt!

Don't know Morecambe and Wise, but that doesn't mean they weren't here, my mind is inclined to drop names and replace them with gibberish. Some days I can almost discuss string theory with my son other days I revert to "You know... that thingy," "and all that other stuff." I fear one day I'll say to my husband, "Remember those kids we had? ...What were their names?"

I've made a few other quilts for my grandchildren, but this one I made specifically for me. I think the next one I make will be horses; several years ago I drew a huge stegasauris on the wall of my granddaughter's room and made her a quilt to match but she is getting to be a young lady, 8 years old, you know, and is ready for a change. My plan this time is to get some fabric and let her paint her own horses and then cut them into quilt blocks and make a quilt similar to the cave horse quilt.

Sisty...I have not seen this quilt!... :( I am very upset that Sid saw it first... :( !!!!...

It is absolutely gorgeous btw and I am not surprised at all by your talent that shines through it. Love the hand painted horse blocks and the colors you have used. Will want to see it in person next time I am over... :o)
xx Sis-n

Surprised you haven't seen it, Cat. Sometimes when J. is here she captures it and puts it on her bed or snuggles on the couch with it. It moves around a lot, it was probably in some obscure corner when you were here. Sisty

You are so modest..I know you...You did not want to go draggin it out to brag...lol..will be sure to find it when I am there next..! :) ~Sis-n

You've no problems Weeds: when I read your comment above where you say 'my mind is inclined to drop names and replace them with gibberish' , I managed to read it as, 'my mind is inclined to drop names and replace them with goldfish'. Hmmm. Where did THAT come from??!!! Oh dear....

The idea for your grandaughter's quilt sounds wonderful and will be something I am sure she will treasure all her life :-)

Better make sure Cat sees the horses quilt when she visits next! lol Me, I'd be leaving it draped in all sorts of prominent places and drawing peoples attention to it in a not-very-subtle way!

I've been drawing lots of horses recently...think I might do a blog at some point as I know there are a few horse-lovers on the site......just need to think up some way of making it relevant to gardening is all! ;-)

I agree Sid...she needs to do a showing of her art! That is what I think...and your grand daughter and you will have loads of fun making that quilt..so much fun..love your idea on that...

All this talk on here about our ancestors..makes the senses come alive..love that we get to learn about this and how we lived off the land, doubt we ever thought to plant anything on purpose for many thousands of years.

Cat, next time you're here the quilt will be on your bed.

Ha ha Sid, goldfish? I'm looking forward to your horse blog. (There is the horse/fertilizer connection to gardening if all else fails.)

Last time J. was here we made a sampler quilt together, she sewed a lot of it herself with my little sewing machine. When I went to visit her, her quilt was on her bed along with about 100 stuffed animals.

Yes Cat, I love that whole ancestor thing, how they lived, who they were, what'd they eat, -all of it! Had a guy who has been studying Central Oregon ancients tell me that several thousand years ago there were probably 4 salmon runs a year there instead of two. That would explain why the NA were there at least some of the time.

Yeah, I was thinking the fertiliser thing.....talk about tenuous tho! he he...

There's just been a discovery in Staffordshire, England, of Saxon gold! A guy with a metal detector found it in a field. The coroner has declared it treasure and it will be sold and half the proceeds will go to the guy who found it and the other half to the landowner. Just said on the radio it's worth in excess of £1million!!! The peices are beautiful tho - you can see pictures at:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Staffordshire-Hoard-Terry-Herbert-Glad-To-Get-Rid-Of-Anglo-Saxon-Gold-Items/Article/200909415388702?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Page_Feature_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15388702_Staffordshire_Hoard%3A_Terry_Herbert_Glad_To_Get_Rid_Of_Anglo-Saxon_Gold_Items_

Horses do EAT grass...what about the lawn mower angle for a garden blog?
What a great story that is about the treasure.
I loved the guy who found it! I'll bet he's a nice man. Hope it doesn't change him, he's perfect without being rich. I would love to see the pieces, they are so awesome with the dirt still on them, I wonder what they will look like all cleaned up.

Hmmmmm....grass.....yes, there is that I suppose....... lol

Yes, the treasure story is great isn't it! There was a slot about it on the local news last night - the objects have been put on display in a museum in Birmingham and there was a HUGE que, looked like it was going round the buildings and across a park or something! I'd like to go see it, but sadly B'ham is a fair old trek from here. I haven 't seen the film about the man who found it.....speakers arn't working on my confuser for some reason, so can't listen to the report on-line :-(

When I was at college I remember we were given an open assisgnment to write an essey on an art form of our choice. I liked ones like that. I chose Celtic art. The intricacy of the peices of jewellery that have been found is amazing! Tiny little 'knotwork' dragons and beasts, tiny dots of gold, tiny polished stones - the sheer detail was mindboggling, especially when you consider the tools they had to work with and that everything was by hand and by natural light or fire light or animal fat lamps. These artifacts pre-date the Roman invasion. Most people think that the Romans civilised the Celts - not so!! The Celts had a rich culture all their own, although sadly they had no written language, which is why so little is known about them. Much of the theories surrounding their civilisation comes from their art. The Romans of course brought latin and the religeons of the east and the monks in the monasteries learnt latin and it was in their writing that we find the first records of Celtic civilisation. It was interesting to see the Celtic style of art followed through into the illuminated pages of the early gospels - just beautiful. And again, all natural home made pigments and these intricate designs...........

:-) My husband calls his laptop a confuser too. Ha

It was fun just seeing the pictures of it on the internet. I liked especially the one they showed that was still lying in the dirt glowing up at them.
I don't know much about Celtic art. The designs are beautiful. So if Celtic art came before the Roman invasion it predates this new treasure by a thousand years or so?
The things I learn on GoY!
I never cease to be amazed by so-called primative peoples.

I wonder sometimes...about that.

Yeah, me too. I mean, HOW, when you really think about it, using only what you can find or make yourself, do you ever drill a tiny fine hole through a semi-precious stone to make a necklace? Such a simple thing nowadays - but incredibly hard to do without a machine!

Knowing what we know now, we wouldn't even attempt something like that. We'd just say, "It can't be done!" Nobody ever told them that they couldn't do it, so they did it!