New pond!

It looks lovely to me :-)

Me too - that's why I feel so glum that it need to be altered...

Really looks as if it's been there for ever .

Just perfect Sg

I hope they come back and sort it for you. I can imagine how disappointed you are. If it's any consolation, it looks great and you done wonders too that corner of your garden.
Good luck!

How disappointing, Steragram. I do hope it is all solved soon.

It does look lovely, though!

It isn't deep enough for what? Your bottom dwelling water plants like lilly and iris will survive.Looks like you will not provide a water pump to move and aerate the water so the larger pond fish are not suitable. Throw in a couple-two- small size comets to eat the mosquito larvae and a little solar pump fountain for interest and enjoy it. It will eventually get a web of filamentous algae on the top but at that depth the pond is easy to clean. Also, every week, overflow the pond so you have changed about a third of the water to keep a fresh odor to it and to avoid the buildup of hydrogen sulfide. (source of the rotten egg smell in long standing water) Come next spring you will be surprised at what made it through the winter. P.S: take your water plants out of their hard containers and place them in net bags and move them to the deepest part of your pool. At a depth of 12 inches there is no need to keep them marginal and it will create more visual interest. P.P.S. I hope you covered over your excess pondliner with backfill or folded it in on itself and not trimmed it with a cutter. In any case by the looks of the pond liner as it was layed out after water fill, if you deepen that pond any further you stand the chance of coming up short in liner.

It does look lovely Stera , that is the perfect spot :-), hope you get it sorted quickly, we were advised at least 18inch too mainly in case the water froze in the winter so there was enough depth for the fish, but our digger driver was the opposite of yours and ours is 8ft deep!!!! Lol.

Interesting blog. Thankyou for sharing. Hope it all works out ok. Loosestrife's comments were informative too. I know nothing about ponds.

It looks great, hope you can sort out what to do soon, would have thought they'd made it deeper in middle and sloping to the sides for wildlife...

You are doing absolutely the right thing, Stera, in letting the 'experts' know that you are disappointed. Yes - it's a shame to have to start again, but you will be so glad in the end . . . no good living with something and wishing for years that you'd made the change! It WILL look wonderful once it's sorted, because you obviously have the right ideas about planting etc. already. Good luck :)

Lovely garden by the way!

Hope it works out for you as it looks great. I would suggest it is just about deep enough for most things and for newts and frogs which will find it in time, but not for keeping fish which for goldfish size should be 18" minimum depth.
If it were me I would ask them to stick to the agreement/contract and insist it is 18" minimum deep and that they come back and redo it.
What ever the outcome you will get great enjoyment from it as I have mine.

Looks really lovely - as if it had always been there. Yes 18" really is the minimum if you want to have goldfish and very few water lillies will grow in 12" of water only the very miniature ones. Can I suggest the addition of some kind of seat nearby. I do hope you manage to get it sorted out

I think it looks wonderful, why change it Stera, think you have enough depth there, I wouldnt bother to change it, honestly.

Well thats interesting - lots of different opinions about the depth! Thank you very much for your feedback everyone, I really appreciate it.

First, we do not want goldfish - no point really with herons around! Between them and otters nobody has any left round here. If it is deepened it will only be in one area Snoop, and the gentle shelved areas will be retained for amphibians. (No we didn't get the pebbles from the beach...)I had thought about a couple of tench though, to keep the bottom clean, but they would need the extra depth. We will have sticklebacks though, which are more fun than goldfish even if not as pretty!

Yes there will be a liner problem but it is possible to attach more with adhesive as is done when lining much larger pools.
A fountain is a total no no, as this is meant to be a natural pond. I did consider a very small solar installation that would just dribble a very small flow off the edge of a rock, and discussed it with the installer, but he didn't think it would be a good idea all told. We will aim to keep the water fresh by getting a proper balance - I would like a couple of fresh water mussels in due course as they do a good job but are quite expensive.We have never had a problem with bad water in other ponds we have had and have been specificallyh advised not to top up with tap water unless there is no alternative - although fortunately our supply seems to be pretty nutrient free as the water has not gone green.

Meadowland, thank you for your reassurance - it will help me not to worry if we decide to leave it as it is. I'm waiting to see what reaction i get from the installer who will have got my letter today.

Hi Sue, if you contract for a certain depth, then that is the depth you should get, whether it is the right depth or not is totally irrelavent, they have not fulfilled their side of the contract, I bet they didn't reduce the bill by a third!!!, Derek.

It looks very natural in that place.
Pity about the depth. I hope something can be done about it without too much disruption.

oh, please keep us up to date as things happen!

I will Fran. Nothing so far.
Derek, that's what I keep telling myself. I just find it so hard to be firm in the face of argument...
Thank you Hywel.

Hi your pond looks so lovely so natural ... I'm doing a pond and I'm so confused with all the things needed ...we have started digging hole its not finished yet I'm hoping for 18" in depth ..iv fussed so much what to get preformed pond or liner but I think liner it probs be ...iv already bought a fair size lily its been in a bucket water for weeks I'm doing this pond on a budget so takes time ...I'm having probs getting the rocks to go round the sides they cost alt of money to buy and I haven't got car to pick some up ...I might have fish but them will need a pump/filter oh dear I don't no what's best to get for the size of pond if you can help me that would be great some advice lovely...how do I get the water that will overflow the pond out of there will it just run out ? Please helppp ...Thankyou...

Sharon I have sent you a Private Message.

@Sharon: there are ways of making fake rocks - lol Google throws up too many links to list but here's a GoY link

http://www.growsonyou.com/franl155/blog/22343-make-rocks-with-unrecyclable-rubbish

the "Instructables" site will have stacks of how-tos

with making your own, you can design the exact size you need exactly where you want it, no transportaiotn problems - unless you want to move it later!

I did read something about how large a pond has to be before it becomes self-sustaining, but I can't remember where I read it or what it said - but it'd probably be too big for the average garden!

No Fran it doesn't have to be that big. I think about 6x4 is about the minimum that will balance without a pump and filter - Mum and Dad had one that size and I can only remember it going bad once. You have to get sufficient surface area in proportion to the depth. We had one 10x6 and again only remember having to change the water once in 14 years.

I think even that would be too hig for me, given that I'd rather have a raised, or slightly raised bed, for ease of access and safety. But who know, one day I might get a bigger garden - har, har!

It would be too big for your garden yes, but there's nothing to stop you having a smaller one in a raised surround as long as you were prepared to install a pump and filter or keep changing some of the water (which is not ideal because of the nutrients in much of your water supplies) Some people on Goy have really small ones that way. Some have made tiny ones in half barrels and you can get miniature lilies that are the right size for a site like that and not all of them seem to have pumps, i don't know how that works.
You could do a search on here for water gardens barrels and also see a problem Funguy had with his. Lots of info and suggestions on google as well. I'm sure lots of experienced people would be happy to advise you. Water makes all the difference in a garden doesn't it?

I think I'll try my fountain-only one for now - I'm still working out the layout of the garden, and I'd hate to start on a pond htat'd end up in the wrong place!

to me, a garden's not really alive if there's no moving water - not necessarilly the gushing torrent, just the gengle splash and chuckle. does wonders for a frayed soul!!

You are right, and there are heaps of small water features to choose from. I know I have missed having some and it is so nice to have the pond at long last, moving or not! I have often felt a bit disappointed in a lovely garden to find that water was all that was missing.

it does add that extra dimension, doesn't it? even still water, which adds no sound - just to sit beside a stretch of water, no matter how small, and chill.

And after a while if you have a bit of pond weed in it little things will come and live in it and you can watch pond skaters and diving beetles.

i've long dreamed of having a wildlife pond - in my fantasy design, it would be raised on one side - built against or into a slope so that the animals and insects could come and go easily, with a transparent plastic wall at the front so i could sit and wwatch above and below water. maybe one day ...

Now that is ambitious!! Ours is on a slight slope so it has a little "beach" at the front for easy access - have already seen a big toad in it!

lol Stera, difference is mine is a dream, yours is real. Even in a raised pond I dreamed a slope at one point to allow access.- with plants along it to give cover to "commuters".

Doubt my dram would be built; plastic would have to be thick to be strong enough, and that'd probably mean I wouldn't be able to actually see anything. and light getting through would have unknown effects on the underwater world.

"You've got to have a dream -
If you don't have a dream
How you gonna have a dream come true?"
Remember south Pacific?

I think what you need is a built up pond - I remember a pic of one on here a bit back and it was a DIY assembly job. I wonder if anybody can remember who it was? You could see into that without bending - but access for creatures would be a problem. Its difficult to have it both ways, but any sort is better than none!

good thought, Stera! maybe have it towards the corner of the garden, and pile up soil for a ramp at the back?

Rose 1949 built a small pond in a raised bed. It was a surprise for her husband. That might be the one you are thinking of, Stera. This is the link to her blog:

http://www.growsonyou.com/rose1949/blog/26219-small-pond-or-big-puddle

thanks Melchise! a pond IN a raised bed, rather than a pond AS a raised bed. but lol the "commuters" have still got to get up there!

Thanks Melchi but it wasn't that one - the one I remember was more like a well and I think it was a DIY construction job with wooden sides. But it would have no access for frogs etc so it wouldn' t do.
Fran you could put it at one end of a raised bed and slope the other end down to ground level perhaps?

Or maybe you could forget about wildlife access and have a raised one with lilies and fish and perhaps a little solar pump? You'll still get beetles, dragonflies etc. and you'd be able to see it much more easily, especially if you had brightly coloured fish.

I hadn't intedned a wildlife pond, at least not a raised one (or raised all round); just having a pond will be enough, and maybe trying tiny water lilies would be a lovely bonus.

Sorry, I seem to have sidetracked the convo, wasn't intentional!

No probs Fran. Looks as if a raised one is your way to go then.

at least for the foreseeable future!

Go for it then...

Trying to catchup Stera so very late arriving, lol..
I do like your pond, it looks grand, have to agree water is a must if one has room, its so relaxing just sitting and looking, not sure whether you have changed the depth but you've seen our bottom pond, its only for the widlife so no pump at all, it never smells except when I have to lift the plants to thin them out and thats only in the springtime about every third year, there's not a slope, just a ledge in opposite corners either end and I stand a couple of pots on them, the frogs manage fine...
My daughters pond is only about the same depth as yours and her plants and the wildlife do absolutely fine and because she doesn't have fish in it her water is a darn sight clearer than ours even with our filters and pumps, its been in about three years now, forgot to say she has Lilies, Iris, as well as about three different marginal plants growing quite happily and although last winter was mild the two previous ones were bad so the plants have experienced the best and the worst, we put the clarity down to the oxygenator plants and of course the fact that no fish so no fish debris...

Thank you for the encouragement Sue. We still haven't had a reply from the installer re deepening. He did insist that the depth would be OK but the water got very warm during the hot spell and we have no shade plants round it yet. I was hoping to have a few sticklebacks but I don't think they would make much mess - and at first i wondered about a tench or two as they are bottom feeders. We are still short of oxygenators and are getting some blanket weed which I'm fishing out as I see it but we have had some nice damselflies and a spectacular dragonfly, and one day there was a big toad in there. We have a couple of small lilies, a pale pink and a red and some miniature bulrushes which are lovely!
Cheers
Sue

Nothing yet, so no point in taking more photos. Yes the water has been getting very warm. I'm investigating what sort of small tree to plant on the south side and BJS has been very helpful with advice for shade planting too. I'm fishing blanket weed out every few days - as I'm expecting to have to empty it there's no point in doing anything more drastic just now.
The only straw bales I know about are the big oblong ones farmers produce - I guess you must mean something smaller? Isn't it barley straw you use for ponds? More info please!
Its very kind of you to be concerned - thank you!

I have used the straw Stera, they sell it in most pet shops and GC's that also deal with pond supplies..Your pond is doing ok if you already have visitors, especially the toad...

I was being pleased that the water wasn't going green but its not as clear as it was - but no point doing anything until I know what's happening. What oxygenators are you all using?

We have a barrel pond with two fish in and a miniature water lily and some pondweed. We have a solar powered pump that sends bubbles into the water to oxygenate it. We change some of the water by using the watering can now and again but use the water butt water from the rainfall collection. Sometimes we syphon out the bottom of the pond using suction from a plastic pipe into a bucket and throw away the debris.

Would be interested to se a photo of that Lindak.
I have heard from the installer - he has ordered a new liner so things should progress soon. such a pity as its begining to look quite settled. But The plants are still in pots - not worth planting them just to have to dig them up again. There is quite a lot of blanketweed now but its full of little eggs. I thought they were snail eggs but got the magnifyer on some today and they are damselfly egge - I could see an immature one inside! shame they will all be doomed when the water has to be emptied out.

that's a shame Steragram, can't you rescue a few in a bucket?

I have done that but as they are all on blanket weed i might be making a rod for my own back by introducing them to the new one. If we had goldfish most of them would have been eaten by now anyway!

Perhaps the larva will just survive in the bucket Steragram without putting them back into the pond. When we had a large pond that really needed a good clean, we put our goldfish into one of our water butts for a while.

I guess they would over the summer but they won't pupate until next year so it depends on what sort of winter we have.

Have the people who built it for you replied yet? and how has it coped through the winter?

It has been fine through the winter Dan, but its clear that the chap has no intention of doing anything about it. I was intending to make a fuss after Christmas but had flu and haven't had the energy. I still haven't planted up the surrounding area and frankly am not sure whether to let him win. The lilies are beginning to grow. i saw a little fish in there the other day - there must have been eggs on the pond plants, so that's another reason for hesitating about emptying it - he's small and brown and easily missed..
Fortunately we rarely get ice that lasts longer than a couple of days, so doesn't have time to get thick and need venting.

That's good then! And if the lillies are growing it'll have some cover and protection too! It's so unfair how the man won't do anything about it!

Yes, but I don't think its worth going to court over and nothing else seems to have worked.

It seems unfair. But sometimes it is better for your sanity just to cut your losses, Stera. My F-i-l never let anything go, and it definitely contributed to his ill-health in later life.
It taught OH to limit his battles to really important ones. In the end, there aren't many... And if you've got fish and plants thriving I'm sure your pond will be fine. It certainly looks lovely, anyway!

Yes Melchi, good advice and in line with what I'm trying to teach myself just now about enjoying the present and not worrying about the past or the future. Holding on to tensions causes a lot of damage to your body in the long run but learning to let go of the "its not fair, I was hard done to" syndrome is easier said than done!

I'm afraid it is ... Living for today is the best way, but it's not easy!

I'm told it gets easier the more you practise it.

Its a b----r that matey hasn't fulfilled his side of the contract but lets face it you will not be recommending his services so he could lose out in the end, its seems that your pond is doing well Stera and finding the little fish was a huge bonus, sit back and enjoy it, as the lilies grow they will provide natural shade for the water.
We bought a new pump last year, s'posed to make life easier for me but to be honest although easier to get at, I had to remove it too often to clean the filter, we still have the complete setup to put the outside filter back, hubby does not know it yet but I'm seriously thinking of putting the old setup back, lol....

Too true - but they appear to be the only pond constructors in the area. I rather suspect he doesn't know much about it actually. I reckon I'd better plant up the surround and hope for the best. A pump isn't really an option, it would be too difficult to run a cable. I did consider a solar one just for a little trickle off th edge of a stone but haven't seen anything suitable. the edging stones he put round are to small and are now falling into the water when anything stands on them to drink. all very disappointing. Don't know where to get sticklebacks as we are a bit short of the right sort of pond accessible by the public. Might get a fresh water mussel though.

There's a website called Carpco and they have native fish I think and they get delivered to your house in fish bags with 24-48 hours of oxygen in them and get delivered near enough next day and are great with returns and refunds if anything happens in transit etc but they're great for pond fish, it might be worth a look on their site for sticklebacks?

Thanks Dan, that's really worth knowing. Will investigate.

It's fine! I'm looking into them too for some more fish!

They are very helpful aren't they? But the carriage will cost more than the fish...

Yeah that's their one downfall!

New blog today showing progress

It certainly does, Stera. It's a lovely pond! ?