Food for Thought/Fuelling the Debate

All I know about African countries is that people who went out to Rhodesia before it was nationalised and bought farm land, found that when it was changed to Zimbabwe they were not allowed to take any money or savings at all out of the country.
Maybe the other countries are the same? They need to keep their resources to establish a better economy.

They were talking about the population on the news this morning, how until the 1800's it was a self sustaining 1 billion due to starvation and illness, now look at us, 8 billion and rising at a rate of 80 million a year.. a can of worms this one but your right we can't sustain this rate of grown in the population our resources are pushed as it is and will never be able to continue this way....

what we can do as gardeners is to plant trees and shrubs, I know it doesn't stop population increase but it has been said that mother nature can survive with ' a little help from her friends....'

Diane - a great example of how the first land grab (we'll call it the colonial one) went shockingly wrong!

Surreylad - the Chinese were castigated by the international community for the most radical environmental policy ever! But the culture of female infanticide that resulted was truly horrible.

Pamg - if we want to make small token gestures there are lots of things to do; stop using the supermarket chains, ethical investments, just buy seasonal etc. But at the end of the day, they are but token gestures.......

Did anyone read Ben Eltons first novel (STARK) back in 1989? Talk about "I told you so"!

My comment was because years ago I met a couple who had emigrated to Africa and I was told they had bought their house there, the man had served in the Police there for 30 years, they had saved to return to UK on retirement. But when that day came they were not allowed to take his pension, the money for the house, money they had saved etc out of the country. Her relative had a double bungalow here, she paid for them to return and let them have half of it.
They came back in what they stood up in.
The husband was still in shock when I met them.
Theres a lot to be said for an English garden. Treasure it. At least its yours.

I worked for a few months with a lad who at the age of thirteen was lined up against a wall with his family to be shot. They were only saved when the rebels "commander" walked round the corner and put a stop to it. They too left the country with nothing.
But the harsh fact is that the "civil" war in Rhodesia was avoidable - less than 10% 0f the population was white, yet they accounted for more than 90% of the population who were allowed to vote. This went against what the British government had in mind for the independent state. Indeed, Rhodesia I believe was never actually recognized as a state by the UN. Had Ian Smith gone down the route of majority rule the whole mess may have been avoided - he was not a bad man, nor a despotic tyrant (as Mugabe is), but he was a poor leader and lacked political foresight.
This current land grab risks creating a whole new generation of embittered people......

I've read every word of the above. I'm afraid the prognosis is rather gloomy, both for the situation you're speaking about, Meanie, and the world in general. But I think the thing that depresses me most (and probably means I'm beginning to prepare for leaving the planet, a slow process comprising first, a degree of disillusionment, then feeling like you don't belong in the modern world, striving to keep up and then not wanting to be part of the modern world, I believe) is that human beings as a breed just don't change - when I was younger, I thought compassion had increased over the centuries. It hasn't - legislation enforces it in some cultures, but really, nowt much changes. We are, at heart, animals, albeit with a large pre frontal cortex, and thus driven to acquire, survival instinct gone mad really - but its very difficult to override primal instincts, no matter how warped their expression in the modern world. It's just life I suppose - and eventually, something will wipe all or most of us out.
The bio fuel thing is akin to the acquisition of land for growing palms so we can harvest all that palm oil that's in everything these days - same old, same old I'm afraid.

I forgot to say that I recycle and re use like an absolute zealot, my family think I'm bonkers, but I do rather feel as if I've turned up after an earthquake with a dustpan and brush...

I've just been listening to the palm oil issue on the food program - certainly an environmental issue, but less of an issue on their ability to feed themselves. As I check the contents of everything that I buy, and very little processed food anyway, it's something that I find easy to keep in check.
Anyway Bamboo, I thought that I was disillusioned! To me, the solution seems so simple - not nice I admit, but financially Young Georgie was the final nail in our coffin, so why not do it now?

Why not do what now? Whatever financial state we're in, it'll all come out in the wash, one way or another, just won't be fun while its happening. The endless repetition of these sorts of problems is what I find really rather tedious... there seems to be no escape! You only notice how we lurch from depression and being hard up to expansion and good times economically once you're old enough to remember previous good and bad times. But it's all a penduluum really, swinging back and forth very slowly - the whole of life really.
I still want to know what you mean by why not do it now - are you talking about slitting me wrists perchance, lol!

Bring in tax breaks for couples with one child. It'll never happen though.

we went too africa on holiday !! u are not allowed to take there curency in or out of the country , thery will put u in prison if cought ................. the police walk up and down the que as u wait to baurd the plane and quiz u . camcorders have to b stamped on ur passports as well. the pound is sold on the black market !! but the indians own all the hotels and pay the natives a pitence .
a gawjuss country , i loved it !! maybe we shud take a small leaf out of there book , and keep our mony in our country !! and grow and use our own crops !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did you go Christine?
The whole world is a global economy so no chance of keeping our money here - we ain't got any anyway!
We need to find a way of deterring these multi-billion pound companies and funds from exploiting the native people (for the financial gain of their rulers).

My stock response to people complaining about immigrants from Africa is "why shouldn't they come over - their food is here!"

Good response that one, I'll have to remember that. Beats my usual pshaw, don't waste my time moaning about England not being English, none of us is 'English' in the sense they mean, we're a nation of mongrels anyway. And go far enough back, we're all over here from Africa...

The sad thing is that they just look at you blankly - they have not a clue as to what you're talking about!

we went to kenya, they made sure we knew by the politics !! the government are rich , but the people were pore !! your right there food is here but we can feed ourselves , and they say charity begins at home .
yes we are mongrels .............. i am from a mixed family < greeck x check republic , my mum was a refuge . but she allways said wen in rome do as the romams .................. i am not complaining bt imergrents just that we can and shud surport ourselfs 1st . it greener that way !! isent that why we grow our own to save money and time eat sesanel stop air miles and ozone holes in the sky the gov. are complaineing we have no money then gv it away !! then we wud have it !!

If only it were that simple!
When was the last time any of us fed ourselves for a week even on UK only produce?

lol its not , but you can give it a dam gud try !! and i not boght any salard or veg stuff all summer , or fruit , or eggs ...................... all my own , and i dont have loads of land or live in the country !!! its a start ...................
have frozen loads too

Ooh, how boring, particularly at certain times of year, only Uk grown produce... depends how you view the world I guess - as a global collection of villages or distant foreign climes and home.

It will require a major rethink of my diet!

lol ................. its all but the global warming and reducing one,s footprint ................. not really bt how you view the world !! but then you can always go 4 your curry now and again to relieve the boredom !! haha x

I think that both issues have the same answer though Christina...........

Cristina, what I meant by the global village concept is just this - Sheffield used to be where steel came from, so if you wanted any, you got it from there, even if you lived in Cornwall. Nowadays, if you want fine green beans year round, you can get them grown in Kenya and shipped to here. So the concept's the same - not produced locally, any more than steel would be if you bought it in Cornwall. You can buy new potatoes grown in Egypt, and funnily enough, it works out cheaper than trying to grow them here when all is taken into account, and also provides employment in poorer parts of the world. What is expensive to the planet is produce grown much closer to the UK - tomatoes for instance, in winter, come from hothouses in Holland, mostly - and their production is very expensive indeed in terms of Co2 production... So it's not as simple as it seems.

Ah, Meanie...I'm not sure where to start...

Africa, maybe...
Mozambique is one of the poorest countries in the world. It won it's independence from Portugal with some help from the rebels in Rhodesia. It is a stable country. They have really only three products - coconuts (and coconut products), cashew nuts and cassava. The cassava they grow for themselves to eat and the other two they export out of Africa. It's all they have to sell apart from tourism. So, without carbon footprints, they would be even poorer, I think.

Botswana is a country which is doing very well. It has a good infrastructure and has welcomed foreign investment (much of it Chinese) in order to achieve this. A major 'export' is wildlife tourism. This is recognised and programmes for protection of animals have been implemented, such as putting the army to work on stamping out poaching. If and when animals are to be killed the meat belongs to the local community. Most of the poachers come in from other countries...as do the tourists...

South Africa is a rich country which likes to keep it's wealth under guard. It grows enough to feed itself and for export. The wine estate owners have, I believe, in recent years had to give a certain proportion of their stakes and profits back to the local communities who also work in them. Both the estates and the local communities are benefitting from this...but most of the wine is exported. I don't know, but I assume that it is the same for other farmers and growers in SA.

Now, I'm in Nigeria. Nigeria is so vast and has so many different climates that it can grow enough food for itself and for export. However, much of the farming has been abandoned in order to chase the much more lucrative market in import/export of other more material things, like cars and, of course, oil. There is a great deal of foreign investment and again the Chinese are very prominent. Most of the trouble and violence in Nigeria takes place in the northern farming communities and in the Delta States, where the oil industry is. These communities feel aggrieved. Obviously there is corruption on almost every level. It has been culturally ingrained for centuries. Although Goodluck Jonathon is trying very hard to change things, many of the people in power are not thinking of the future in any way other than their own bank balances. This means that ordinary people have to live day to day. On the other hand, some communities are staying strong by selling 'tourism' (you may have read my blog). Most, though not all, the 'tourists' are foreigners (like us) who spend a little supporting them but take a large proportion of their earnings out of the country. Recently, I have given up shopping in a well known international supermarket and taken to buying almost everything I need in the local market. I know it's not much but it's helping several families to live.

I read an article recently which said that Burkina Faso is turning it's fortunes - and standards of living - around by growing and exporting green beans to France (who imports very little and most of that comes from French speaking parts of the world).

Some of the Carribean islands cannot produce enough food for themselves and are completely reliant on tourism for the income needed to import and buy food. Here, again, on many islands the ports and roads have been 'gifted' to them by the Chinese.

None of these countries could survive without the 'Global Community'. However, they are all relatively stable and democratic. The communities do have some say in what happens to their land and, with the possible exception of SA, people are doing what they have to do to get by.

Zimbabwe used to be the breadbasket of Africa until Robert Mugabe 'redistributed' the farmlands. Many black Zimbabweans have also been forced to leave - a source of great sadness to them...they know the great potential their country has. I don't know much about what goes on in Ethiopia but I suspect that as long as the government is willing to 'sell', there will be people willing to exploit the resources. In such places life really is seen as cheap.

Sorry if this is all a bit garbled...there are so many different issues involved. But, I suppose that my personal view, having spent a little time in several African countries, is that there is little we can do about international greed and government corruption. Eating only local produce in Europe and not making carbon footprints is not helping people in many countries who depend upon us buying their produce. Perhaps we just need to be more aware of where it's coming from. Funnily enough, I no longer complain about the price of cashew nuts...

What an interesting post, thanks Karen... I know the green bean growers in other countries rely on it to survive - which is why I continue to buy them. Fascinating programme on tv a while back about how they 'refrigerate' them without any electricity until they're collected. It was the same programme which showed potatoes growing in the desert in Egypt - using, if I recall correctly, peat from Ireland and seed potatoes from Scotland.

It's amazing how inventive people in third world countries can be given a few resources, isn't it Bamboo?

Interestingly, 'ordinary' potatoes are called Irish potatoes here...but the original stock must have arrived a long time ago, since they are very strict now about bringing in seeds etc from other countries.

Thanks Karen - your insight is most interesting.

Thing is though, there are so many subsistence farmers and nomadic people who are being displaced.........

I know what needs to be done, but I also know that it will never happen.

My eyes were first opened up to the ingenuity of the third world during my time in Asia.

I know Meanie. The problem is that we can't really do anything to help, as I see it - except maybe to boycott the produce from these places. Of course it has to be on a large scale. The people won't be any better or worse off in the short term, because they don't actually matter (in these places), but it may affect the profits of the big companies and slowly bring change.

I will certainly be boycotting bio diesel as it is an inferior product anyway!

Ha! I wouldn't put it in my little yellow peril either...

But I wouldn't mind if they used it to make Nigerian electricity work 24/7!!!

If you were relying on generators fuelled by that I wouldn't count on 24/7 power!!

Aha, true! Tho' maybe if they used the water hyacinth, the power would still be iffy...but the boat propellor would work for longer! ;)

It's funny to think that I get the hump if my internet connection drops out for a few seconds at peak time - at least my food will still be getting cooked. We take our constant power supply very much for granted!

Oh boy, you're right there, Meanie - if anyone wanted to disable the human race, removing the ability to produce electricity would do it in a few seconds...

We'd be done for!!

It happens umpteen times a day here...The better off people all have back-up generators. And you can almost guarantee that it'll happen just before the end of a film. By the time you've switched power supply and reset the telly, you've missed it!

we're fed by overhead wires and do expect power cuts in very bad weather so have a gas hob ( bottled gas) an electric oven and a multifuel stove-- and a multitude of candles-- even a windup torch and radio-- thankfully its a rare event the only problem last winter was tree branches hitting the wires which the emergeny callout men had to chop off!

Only just come across this blog. All very sad and sorry the way the world is going. I know someone whose white daughter is in Mallawi with a Mallawi sculptor. Sold her bungalow to set up over there. Now there's no fuel, no one has any money, and all sorts of commodities are in very short supply. Can't come out because no consulate open due to consul speaking up about persecution of gays, and consulate closed. Her partner can't get a visa. We don't hear about these things, as not 'newsworthy'. Even if we do know what could be done by you or I? Within recorded history people have moved due to war, nastiness, starvation,shortages. All we can do is our tiny mite.

So, so much we don't ever get to hear about, in Britain, for whatever reasons...

Nigeria is now looking at a very real possibility of civil war again...another Biafra...but on a much bigger scale...

I've no idea what the answer is, other than to make people think a little more........

I think you're right, Meanie...education is the answer, so that all people (wherever they are) can think a little more and make their own decisions...

But, the danger here comes from an increasingly popular sect called Boko Haram, which roughly translates as 'no western education'...