Allotments

This is the first such scheme that I've heard of Lily. I know that the waiting lists for Council allotments are a mile long, so this sounds like a wonderful idea in principle. Just depends on how much they're going to charge :-))

Very interesting news, Lily...
I presume other organisations with land might watch this with interest...
not just garden centres..... to see if it is a profitable venture...

I guess the garden centres hope the allotment holders will do all their shopping at Wyevale... Maybe they would be given a discount for shopping ...wouldn't look so good if everyone on the allotments were walking about with items purchased from other outlets..Lol.

No I don't think they are too low might be to some but for oap or one parents or people on low wage no, a lot have to scrape by on what they have to live off now, as well as pay out for seed or plants which are no longer cheap as a couple of pound might not mean much to some but to a pensioner who only lives off his state pension also a low wage or one parent like I was is. Pensioners struggle now, it also gives them an outlet other than being stuck in as not affording to go out where it would cost, holidays, daytrips, lunches, especially as you have to do hard work to clear them, as they always give the overgrown ones, or ones with bineweed or mairs tale etc which then limits what you can grow where. Some allotments have nt got water eletric or sheds unless some one has left a shed, I did nt have one on my first allotment.

does sound a good idea as long as they dont charge to much, there does seem to be a long waiting list for them with councils so private ones would help,

Hopefully this is going to be a win/win situation... folks who need an allotment get one - Wyevale doesn't have weedy land to deal with. Moray council still has a policy of not having allotments... grr And, as a local councillor I know they have to make drastic cuts in all there budgets so, I suspect, allotments and funding things like community initiatives are going to be put on the back burner.

Please note I am a councillor for our local community NOT the Moray council... and from what I have read the council itself is not happy at he cuts... these come from the fact that the government is reducing funding.

I was under the impression that "all" local authorities had a duty to provide allotments if "there was a demand"????

Ha, ha... apparently not and, given the level of debt of most local councils they can weasel out of anything. It is scary when they get to the point of cutting the free fruit for kids in P 1 & 2...

I hope this is all it seems? The rents might not be higher as it must be cheaper to rent the land out than manage it themselves and each user is a potential customer.

I have noticed in the Oxford paper that they have had their money back from what they lost in the fall of the banks so why not others, I caught hold of this as some Pakistani keeps texing my phone with messages and this was one stating to look in the Oxford times paper.page 12 last week.

~ yes but if the council say they have provided some somewhere even though not enough to satisfy demand they are probably fulfilling their statutory requirements especially when funds are short!They will tell you to go on the waiting list!
I had heard that some country estates were thinking of providing allotments as a source of revunue but none of these initiatives sound cheap do they?

It does sound great doesn't it but it also doesn't sound cheap to set up which is why I suspect rents may be higher. Good point about allotment holders being potential customers though. Could be good all round.

In a neighbouring County, a farmer has created super allotments, with shower-rooms, meeting/coffee room, hot and cold water on tap, etc. Very exclusive, and available for renting at £375.00 pa. Think I'll just be staying on the Council waiting list, only 142 names ahead of me! Hope Wyevale doesn't overcharge for the rental - great idea, however.

Very interesting Lily.....I can't really comment as I don't know anything about the allotments over there.....We have things called community gardens over here which are just starting up but I think the procedure is somewhat different to your allotment system.

On the surface, this sounds like an excellent and much needed idea. I think the obvious rental costs come into question, the covenents included in the agreements, eg. will the tenents be required to spend a certain amount in the GC etc. but my first thought was, if land prices or council policies re building change, how secure will these allotmenteers be? When giving or renting land to an allotment society I think the lease should run for at least 99 years but somehow I can't imagine a commercial business handing over control of one of their assets for such a long period!
A brilliant idea and one I support wholeheartedly (see my landshare blog) and I hope I'm proved to be wrong but my feelings are that those lucky enough to get one of these plots could find themselves working land that they are going to lose at a minutes notice.

Don't think they would loose the allotments at a moments notice as they would presumably have a tenancy agreement.
Probably will cost more than local council alotments but even at over £300 it only equates to approx 2 less pintsof beer a week. When put into perspective it's not bad.
The GCs aren't altruistic I bet there is a Government subsidy that they can claim to enable them to do this also people and companies buy land to bank it as it's the one thing that is a finite resource. Therefore the cost of land will only increase so makes a great assett. Meanwhile they can make money from collecting rents on it and increase the GC sales. Good business move on their part and with all the people wanting allottments at least there is a 2nd option other than just council

Sorry Lily I don't know a lot about allotments (no pun intended there :~)) as I have never had one. Are you thinking of applying for one? Where we lived before, our neighbours on either side of us had allotments and they were always swapping tips and things and I got into conversations with them, that is how I got interested in gardening.

It would be nice if there were more allotments, not that I'd be able to cope with one now. There are none around here at all. I remember some near where I grew up years ago, but they're not there now.

An allotment - me, Bob? I just wish I had the energy! I just thought it an interesting topic although it is a subject I know nothing about personally.
Have been looking at rents charged, they seem to vary from £3 - £75pa with the average around £20-£30 mostly inc water to some extent, with some Councils making concessions for those on benefits. At around .50p a week this sounds like a huge bargain and I'm sure many holders could afford to pay more. I'm sure Wyevale will charge more than this with their better facilities but hopefully not as much as £375 David!
Security of tenure is a good point Ian but hopefully there will be something in the agreement to safeguard this, otherwise it's pot luck which may for some be better than no allotment at all. I also wonder how long the average tenancy lasts. Can you be evicted if your plot is not used?

Hi Gilli, community gardens are different to allotments in that an allotment is rented by one person, or family, who then grows what they want to on that piece of land (provided they follow whatever rules their allotment society has). A community garden, at least over here, is an area of land on which folk grow communally but, so far as I know, you don't have your own plot of land to do with as you will.

Lily, If this is done properly (that is with proper agreements for the tenents and a guarenteed lease for the association) then I'm all for it. I think my last comment didn't come over as I intended and I apologise for that! I'm all for the landshare system but I worry that perhaps a commercial venture like a garden centre would have a loop hole in any agreement so they can reclaim their land if and when they want!

You can be evicted Lily. If the plot is left untended and becomes an eyesore or if you are using it for illegal purposes. My dad had an allotment and following a motorbike accident he was in hospital for a long while so they took the plot off him as nobody was seeing to it

Lily it seems a great idea, depending on all the proviso's already mentioned.
If Wyevale overcharged, surely not many people would take them up, so it would be counter-productive. If it works it would be a great idea, especially for people living in flats who at present can't have the pleasure of a garden.
You have brought up with a really interesting and challenging subject.

Of interest is that only English and Welsh authorities 'have' to provide allotments, some Scottish councils do but there is no requirement.

I don't know about Scotland MG but the law in England, as far as I understand it, is if six (or more) people ask the local council for an allotment then they have to supply them!

At one time councils could'nt give allotments away, now there is a long waiting list for them.

I think there would be people willing to take them up Mad even at quite high rents given that the waiting lists are generally so long and this is a relatively affluent area. (Not sure how long the list is round here but presumably it's long if Wyevale are planning to provide 200 plots)
Is this a bad thing - if it shortens the queue for others?
I'm sure you're right Ian, Wyevale will want to have it set up in a way that enables them to have some leeway for any future plans.

I checked Ian and there is no requirement in Scotland and given that Scottish government has cut funding to the councils I doubt that Moray will do anything. They are having to cut all other services in some cases drastically.

Thats a shame MG. I know that the councils in England generally ignore this and send you to the local society to go on their ever expanding list!
Lily, I hope it's a roaring success and lots of other places follow suit.

I agree Ian, I think Mr MB posted a while back that there is a large walled garden at Brodie Castle which would be perfect for allotments but I doubt the NTS will be interested...

They certainly wouldn't want makeshift sheds made from old doors and corrugated iron MG!

I think the NTS or rather the NT ARE involved with landshare! I know for sure that the Forestry commision are!

Lol Lily, I can just imagine it!

I'm not aware that the NT Scotland is...