THUGS

No what you mean with the Centaurea 'John Coutts' Barbara, I planted one last spring and decided to get rid of it this spring - well, you would think it would all come out in one go after so little time, not so!, I already have new shoots appearing in the same spot, think I might have to spray to eradicate it completely.

Interesting blog Spritz...with gorgeous pics....thank you :)

"Thugs" aren't allowed in my tiny garden though....maybe because they don't have room to spread their wings? I love the pink Japanese anenome, the Muscari, Comfrey and Euphorbia....and they are all pretty well behaved here :)

Could I possibly call forget me nots ,feverfew and a wild blue cornflower? thugs .The forget me not gets every where I do like it though so I just keep moving it ,the corflower is un killable it flowers then dies down and pretends its dead only to pop back up again but they are bonny flowers. Like you my geraniums are perfectly behaved.

Hi Spritz, i have a few of your thugs too, although most thugs i serve an ASBO and they inhabit pots... the red clover i just know as 'elweedio' i am constantly pulling it out particually my front garden and it encorrages rust too don't like this one at all :-/ i never planted it i am in agreement this is officially a weed...
I too have mascari thuggin about a bit, but i don't mind it too much to be honest... a few others that need national health warnings that i have are my white violets... Ajuga, solidago, crocrosmia and not forgetting houttuynia... but once served ASBO's in a pot worth while plants to grow...

OMG you have just identified comfry in my garden. I have been trying to get rid of it for ages without knowing what it was called.actually it was a bit that came under my fence from next door, I thought it looked pretty and the rest is history. serves me right LOL

hi spritz, wouldnt mind a few of those thugs, flowers are really nice,enjoyed your blog

Well yes but thugs don't always start out as thugs do they! But I agree on the Japanese anemone - or the pink one, I have the white one which is delicious and quite refined!
Cranbe Cordifolia is a definite thug in my book, it looked lovely in a garden I once visited.... finally got it in mine and now I HATE it - this year covered in caterpillars just like a cabbage plant, and it smelt the same too. Grew far too big, looked spectacular for a while and then just a complete pain in the proverbial!! Heard Bunny Guinness talking about an invasive small oxalis which is colonising lawns... is it like a weed being a lovely plant except its in the wrong place?
See where we get to f we interfere with nature....!

Interesting blog Spritz and taught me a couple of others to avoid. I had Erigeron in Yorkshire and although it seeded profusely it made a pretty path edging I loved it. Had jsut been looking at a nursery catalogue that says it deserves to be more widely grown. Probably because they have that many plants they need to entice buyers for it. Much like Estate Agent speak.
Euphorbia amygdaloides used to self seed in the tiniest cracks that made it impossible to eradicate as I don't use weedkiller. As for Muscari it just takes over borders.
Saying all of that they are still preferable to dandelions and docks :~))

centaurea montana is a lovely flower, ive always liked that, but a thug, what a shame, seems alot of the thugs do have pretty flowers :o( i will be keeping my eye on my anemone after you telling me about it barbara :o),

Thanks for the comments and interest. Bs - I DO use weedkiller on 'John' and he still survives!

I'd still defend my Erigerons, I know they get everywhere - but yes, they soften the path edges and I love them! I have to laugh when I see it for sale at £5.99 per pot, though!

I agree, all these thugs are better than weeds, but some are soooo difficult to cope with! I think I draw the line at the Comfrey - it's a WEED to me! LOL. Poor Tulsalady - you have my sympathy!

not all anemone's are thugs San, i have 'whirlwind' which is a white one, and that seems ok at the moment... do you know which you have?

I put that in, Angie! About the well-behaved ones, I mean. Sandra and I have been chatting about her Jap. Anemone - it's in the RHS book as being an 'invasive' one. Can't remember its name though.

oh dear.... you can always plant it in a large pot instead of the bed, they can become an pain, like a lot of the others mentioned.... did you get my PM Spritz?

Another brill blog Spritz. I recognize some of these! ! ! Lol

I agree with that euphorbia being a thug. The trouble is, it is recommeded for dry shade and you plant it thinking that will solve a problem and before you know where you are, it's half way down the border and swamping everything else. It's bad enough in clay; in light soils, it's a nightmare. And NEVER plant ranunculus ficaria 'Brazen Hussy' - it's a celandine with dark leaves

You could always learn the rest by heart, Ian - test tomorrow! LOL.

Which ones did you know?

I planted that Celandine OUTSIDE the gate, Andrew! I don't yet know if it has survived, though. It can do its own thing whereI put it - no problem. I agree - I wouldn't have it inside the gate! lol.

september charm barbara :o))

Hi Spritz....There is also a yellow Corydalis that reminds me of those things that pop up and down and you hit them with a mallet but never get to clobber all of them. It gets admired and bits taken away. I assure them it only likes my garden. Never been known to take to anyone elses garden. Easy to pull out, pretty and rather irritating. One more is possibly an Allium as it smells of onions. It has strappy leaves that loll about. It smothers things then expires over other plants. It has a tiny white flower. I cannot understand how either of these plants came to our garden.

Very informative, Barbara! Great blog!
Some of those thugs are gorgeous,though!

I'll definately agree with the Euphorbia amygdaloides, but it's good point is, it does grow in places where nothing else will survive. Another thug, if it's happy is Euphorbia griffithii, it's roots run and run.

To late! Andrew, already have Ranunculus 'Brazen Hussey'

Aren't these thugs a nuisance ? One plant I've been looking for for many years turned out to be a thug. It is Sanguisorba, and grew to nearly 6 ft , smothering all around it. - So in order to get rid of it I sent pieces to several GoY friends. Maybe the bit I kept will behave better in it's new place.

Oh Hywel - after all that! I remember your question with the sketch, asking for ID. What a shame! I do hope it doesn't turn into a thug where you have it now!

That's strange about Corydalis lutea, Dorjac - I like it, and tried and tried to get it to grow in my garden! It has 'taken', but it is very well-behaved! :-)

Dorjac .... i have that Corydalis and it's a right royal pain in the ****, isn't it ?
It's rampaging through my rockery and dry stone wall and i don't WANT it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

I'll have it, Louise! :-))

Really ?
I'll pot up the next lot i rip out :-/

Thanks! :-))

Yes Spritz I like it too,it is very pretty. Probably the way I garden. It gets its own way,unless I step in and pull it out,which is easy. A clue is that one year I had 3 hedgehogs hibernating in a row by making a leaflined and roofed nest under the debris left by plants that should have been cleared! They were about 12-14 feet from the back door. That way they were near the dry cat food which I dotted about so they could come out and have snack. Alas they are all gone.

Very nice pics and interesting as well

enjoyed your blog........and lovely photos......i quite like things spreading around my garden......lots of mingling as you say..... : O )

What lovely thugs you have Spritz. I agree about the pink Japanese Anenome, I planted some in my last garden and it drove me and my neighbour nuts. He got his own back by planting bluebells which seeded all over MY garden - another thug in my book!
Corydalis very well behaved in my garden, I love it and am currently nuturing some seedlings in pots!!

That Symphytum officinale looks like the stuff growing downstairs here in a shady spot - bees love it, does it have rather hairy unpleasant to touch leaves? I've been wondering what it was, and it does look like this, but I need gloves to pull it out, it feels nasty - like to know if its the same as this.

The other thug you've not mentioned, but I love, is forget-me-nots - people hate them cos they take over, but they're so easy to pull out, and I love 'em in the spring. and I'm a fan of the Centaura that pops up too.

Not keen on forget-me-nots but i too really like Centaura :-)

Bamboo - I should have mentioned that the Symphytum is really bristly and you DO need to wear gloves to tackle it! If I don't, I get tiny bits stuck in my skin - really uncomfortable! I didn't mention several other possible villains, you're right!

Who'd like to volunteer to come and dig a piece of 'John Coutts' out, then (that is if it's the one you like!)

I don't mind bluebells in my garden, but you're right, Lily - they can turn thuggish!

Nice thugs - but great words of warning, Spritz. Thankfully, nowadays I have to garden in containers, so even the mint can't rampage. In a former garden. however, I planted a single variegated Houttuynia, despite the "words of wisdom" from the checkout girl. Was she right!! Gave up trying to give bits away after year one - it's probably almost taken over the whole village by now!!

Ah yes, Houttuynia - most definitely a thug!

Thanks for the warning. Unfortunately I have the Oxalis all over the place. I didn't plant it but try as I do I can't get rid of it and each year the problem gets worse. As for the Erigeron, I love these and they are well behaved in my garden. I'm actually trying to increase them.

Great! A man after my own heart, here. :-))

Funnily enough, I have Houttuynia - it comes up IN the stream, but is reasonably well-behaved - unlike Phalaris arundinacea - which I foolishly forgot to put in the blog. Another utter thug - it even comes up in the lawn! No - I didn't plant that, either!

This blog & the comments make me laugh! At least the comfrey is edible and medicinal, as is the ranunculus (the name Brazen Hussy gave you fair warning, didn't it?!) I have eaten a couple fresh leaves of feverfew in passing for arthritis aches, but I'd steer clear of the hallucinogenic Canary reed grass (Phalaris). An epimedium like Rose Queen might be nice in dry shade: I can hardly keep them alive so they can't be too invasive! I have a soft spot for forget-me-nots as they are the very first flower I learned the name of.

and how about Lysimachia (Creeping Jenny) not so much a creeper but a mile a minute :(

Yes Lysimachia (the tall one) a thug but pretty and useful in the right place where nothing else will grow. Like all the thugs really

I have three Lysimachias - L. ciliata 'Firecracker', L. clethroides, and L. punctata. They are all definite thugs! Again, though - pretty ones!

I have dived in head first, though, knowing the characteristics of this family - and planted two L. ephemerum I got at Beth Chatto's Nursery! Am I crazy? I hope they spread a little - but aren't too thuggish, as they are instead of some of the Jap. Anemones!! LOL.

Good luck, at least you have plenty of room for them. Crazy? NO, I always like to have a go even if I do live to regret it (often!) I do have a soft spot for punctata though! Never tried the others, no room.

If you have limited space, they're a definite no-no. Lily - but I don't yet know what the new one will do. Haha - it might prove to be a match for the Jap Anemones, mightn't it?

Yes just sit back and watch the fun while they fight it out! lol

Yes - good idea - but unfortunately, I guess I know which thug would win - and I don't want to lose the Lysimachia...yet...;-((

I'm sure you're right. I'm not supposed to be GoYing, but I can't resist a quick peep! I'm really on computer to attempt techie stuff, installing software for new camera :o((. Then got to suss camera out too. Headache coming on! lol

Oooohhh!! You poor, poor thing, Lily! I wouldn't even attempt all that....what's my husband for? At least I can blame him if things go wrong, can't i! Hehehehehe.

HE told me to do it myself Spritz! :o((((( I'll remember that!)

Yes, lysimachia 'Firecracker' is another thug. I finished up planing it inside a bariier to stop it running too far and it sulked for about three years but then decided to live after all. Another thug par excellence is the bamboo sasa veitchii. I planted it about ten years ago but then started to regret it. Thought I'd got it all out but then found some next door in my 'Bit on the Side'

Phygelius rectus African Queen- damn thing pops up 2 feet away, needs a barrier in the soil round it really

Oh, Bamboo - will you tell all mine that they should thrive, please? They don't listen to me, that's for sure! I lose them with monotonous regularity here!

I don't know that particular Bamboo, Andrew - but hard luck!

I inherited a Phyllostachys aurea, and I put in a P. nigra about 3 years ago. They are not too bad behaviour-wise in my garden, but they have room to 'walk' where they are. I think that they could certainly be thugs in a small garden!

Well funnily enough, Spritz, having planted various forms of Phygelius over the years, I have noticed that the only one that seems to go bananas and thrive really, really well is African Queen - some of the others (the yellow one) hasn't spread at all, and I've actually had 3 or 4 (one yellow, 3 not) die on me - seems African Queen is the most vigorous and hardiest one of all, well in my experience, anyway.

Thanks, Bamboo, for the warning: maybe I'll keep mine in pots. While beauty for its own sake is a noble virtue, harvesting and using the plants in our gardens is also meritorious. Many Asian transplants to Florida planted bamboo. Unlike their neighbors who wanted a quick screen and then found it broke up their walls and foundations, the Filipinos for instance cut it for food (bamboo shoots), stakes, arbors, gates and fences, tiki huts, etc. Commercially bamboo makes a hard, durable flooring that's more "renewable" than oak. Shivering last winter, I found bamboo is being woven into thermal longjohns that wick moisture away. A shift in how we view what grows around us can make a bane a blessing.

I have the lysimachia ephemerum that I grew from seed last year, and so far it seems to be fairly well behaved, Clethroides was a new addition last year and I haven't had a problem ....yet :))))

You will, oh, you will! lol. I like it, though - so I don't mind it walking along the border! Nice to hear about the new one, though! :-)) We'll have to compare notes on it.

Very informative and cautionary blog Spritz. Thanks. You have also drawn out a lot of other useful information.

Thanks, Ponty - I was hoping it might! The trouble is that I keep thinking of other 'thugs' in my garden, that didn't get included! I shall have enough for a 'Thugs part 2' blog at this rate! LOL.

Go for it! We have a problem with Muscari but by constantly digging out the bulblets we suffer the remainder because they are so colourful. Red Clover is the bane of Elaine's life - it infests most of her pots and she is constantly replacing the top inches of compost or re-planting them to no avail. Another pain in the proverbial is a plant which grows under my Cotinus. Smells like a cat's urinal! I think it is a Geranium but can't be sure because I try not to leave them long enough to find out. Have tried digging it out - no joy because they hide under the tree roots! Have tried spraying carefully with glyphosate. They die back but still return.

Ponty, If it stinks when you try to pull it out, its probably Herb Robert - ferny leaves, red stems, small pink flowers?

Thanks Bamboo. Just ckecked Herb Robert on the 'net and went out in the dark to compare but my torch battery is flat so I'll check tomorrow.

That one such a nuisance - I find that if I get my fingers under and round the entire plant, it comes out whole.

I agree, Spritz, it is easy to lift out, as long as you've got all the stems at the base. But I hate that smell...

So do I!!! :-((( Luckily, there's only one place in my garden where it thrives, so I try to remove it before it can set seed - it always re-appears, though!

great blog Spritz, I could write a book on thugs, unfortunately I seem attracted to them. Make a little pond..must have the beautiful carex pendula, it's everywhere now. A bamboo that doesn't spread? must have one of those and it's beautiful, pleioblastus auricomus (it was arundinaria when I bought it) For years it was lovely, then it suddenly went mad. I've had to poison it with advice from Seaburngirl. Persicaria bistorta suberba, impossible to eradicate here, I've grown to hate it. I love forget-me-nots and they're so easy to pull out I could never consider them thugs. Snowberry from next doors garden I could go on and bore everyone to death so I'd better finish:-)

I definitely want forget-me-nots in my garden, but I'll put them out front!!

I do NOT like that snowberry! I can't comment on its thuggishness, as I have never grown it!

I am working on 'Thugs - part 2' as there are so many more, aren't there! Watch...this...space!!!! LOL.

Don't forget some of your beloved geraniums are a bit free in their seeding habits

oh yes 'Bill Wallis' loves to put himself about, but he's so pretty I forgive him:))

And me, G. I am not putting him as a thug ....oh, well, maybe, I'll see.;-)

And what about Kerria .. if your neighbour plants it, you'll have it in your garden in no time too.

Funny, Bamboo - that isn't at all thuggish here???

I have just written the new 'Thug Blog'! Kerria is not one of the thugs, though!

Really, not thuggish there? I can't believe it, it's a nightmare here, as bad as lilac suckers

:-((( I'm really glad for me, though, obviously!

I had kerria in my old garden for years, never any problem, how odd:-)

I had heard that it could 'sucker'. Mine don't, though! I have two, both single flowered.

I have a Kerria "growing wild" under my Beech hedge. Never thought of it as a THUG. I have a wonderful display in the spring. Adds a bit of colour to the Beech. Love it!

I had a garden in Ealing where the neighbour planted Kerria - 2 years later, it appeared our side - ten years on, it's now 8 feet wide and growing through the middle of hypericum Hidcote and Spiraea argutea... and the only reason it's not in the lawn and halfway across the garden is because I'd dig it out.

Goodness gracious! A very adventurous shrub, Bamboo!

Phygelius! I've just spent two days digging it (and some lovely, but old, fuchsias and lavender) out of my front garden.

Really? I think that's a plant that either goes mad, or refuses to thrive. It dies in my garden - every time I try it - except the last one on the stream bank which has flowered again this year.

I agree, Phygelius African Queen here is a nightmare - I have to get the contract gardener to pickaxe it out and just leave a small clump annually, spreads like the devil. The yellow version, though, seems much better behaved.

My survivor is a creamy yellow - 'Moonraker'? I think...

Not sure what variety of yellow I've got, lost in the mists of time, lol

Well, it's good that it's still there...:-))